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190hp Toyota Celica TRD Sports-M - What's the tweak? #81631 Jan 13, 12:12pm Jan 13, 12:12pm
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190hp Toyota Celica TRD Sports-M - What's the tweak?
I get this email quite often - just thought I would post it up here so that everyone can provide their feedback grin

Quote:
What was the tweak that boosted the 180 hp GTS engine to 190 hp? Is this due to emissions demands in the USA, i.e. the catalytic convertor, or something else? Just curious.


10 hp is 10 hp


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Re: 190hp Toyota Celica TRD Sports-M - What's the tweak? [Re: isaac] #81632 Jan 13, 12:17pm Jan 13, 12:17pm
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actually now that you've mentioned it...good question. the celis in japan run OVER 180 since their emissions laws are not as strict here. but the sport-m which is an upgrade to the GTS should have more power than the 180+hp on the stock GTS' there. hmmmm... spineyes

so the question is...how much hp is on the stock GTS celicas in japan compared to the stock Sport Ms? maybe from the hp diffreence we can assertain what causes the hp jump confused



Originally posted by SKOOF:
yoru such a clown, i wish you lived in nyc, i would love to just give you the beating that youve probably never gotten in your life.
Re: 190hp Toyota Celica TRD Sports-M - What's the tweak? [Re: isaac] #81633 Jan 13, 12:22pm Jan 13, 12:22pm
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It's the higher octane that Japan has. Also, their hp system is a little different and doesnt mean that they have 10 more hp. In reality, the difference is only a few hp which was made by the JDM ecu for that extra few horeses.

Re: 190hp Toyota Celica TRD Sports-M - What's the tweak? [Re: Steven] #81634 Jan 13, 12:37pm Jan 13, 12:37pm
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Originally Posted by Steven
It's the higher octane that Japan has. Also, their hp system is a little different and doesnt mean that they have 10 more hp. In reality, the difference is only a few hp which was made by the JDM ecu for that extra few horeses.



I thought octane had nothing to do with generating HP? confused

Re: 190hp Toyota Celica TRD Sports-M - What's the tweak? [Re: Gen7fan] #81635 Jan 13, 12:41pm Jan 13, 12:41pm
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Originally Posted by Gen7fan
Originally Posted by Steven
It's the higher octane that Japan has. Also, their hp system is a little different and doesnt mean that they have 10 more hp. In reality, the difference is only a few hp which was made by the JDM ecu for that extra few horeses.



I thought octane had nothing to do with generating HP? confused


most of it is from the ECU

Re: 190hp Toyota Celica TRD Sports-M - What's the tweak? [Re: Steven] #81636 Jan 13, 12:44pm Jan 13, 12:44pm
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Japan Industry Standard (JIS) is the standardization organization in japan. After 1985, all JIS horsepoer ratings are the same as SAE ratings because JIS converted to SAE test conditions. For JIS net horsepower readings before 1985, mulitply the reading by 0.984 to get SAE net horsepower. In other words, after April 1, 1985,
JIS net Hp = SAE net Hp,
whereas before april 1, 1985:
JIS net Hp x 0.984 = SAE net Hp

SAE Net horsepower is the power an engine develops as installed in the vehicle. ex: stock air cleaner/filter, stock cooling fan, stock alternator, stock exhaust, full emmissions etc.


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Re: 190hp Toyota Celica TRD Sports-M - What's the tweak? [Re: trog2233] #81637 Jan 13, 1:16pm Jan 13, 1:16pm
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Originally Posted by trog2233
Originally Posted by Gen7fan
Originally Posted by Steven
It's the higher octane that Japan has. Also, their hp system is a little different and doesnt mean that they have 10 more hp. In reality, the difference is only a few hp which was made by the JDM ecu for that extra few horeses.



I thought octane had nothing to do with generating HP? confused


most of it is from the ECU



thumbsup

Re: 190hp Toyota Celica TRD Sports-M - What's the tweak? [Re: Gen7fan] #81638 Jan 13, 1:42pm Jan 13, 1:42pm
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euro GTS is 192 hp.
We have 95 octane gas here too.
Probably a combination of higher octane and lower emission standards

Re: 190hp Toyota Celica TRD Sports-M - What's the tweak? [Re: isaac] #81639 Jan 13, 1:43pm Jan 13, 1:43pm
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yea but that doesnt mean you have 11 more hp than US celicas. Both continents don't use the exact same HP ratings. smile

Re: 190hp Toyota Celica TRD Sports-M - What's the tweak? [Re: Steven] #81640 Jan 13, 1:51pm Jan 13, 1:51pm
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Really?
I didn't know that, I know the torque is measured in Nm and in us in lbs/ft

Re: 190hp Toyota Celica TRD Sports-M - What's the tweak? [Re: Immo] #81641 Jan 13, 2:32pm Jan 13, 2:32pm
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In singapore you can get 97 octane at the local gas stations.

Re: 190hp Toyota Celica TRD Sports-M - What's the tweak? [Re: beans] #81642 Jan 13, 2:47pm Jan 13, 2:47pm
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Originally Posted by beans
In singapore you can get 97 octane at the local gas stations.


We've got 98 here too, but I don't know if that makes my engine run better

Re: 190hp Toyota Celica TRD Sports-M - What's the tweak? [Re: Immo] #81643 Jan 13, 2:59pm Jan 13, 2:59pm
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Hey guys, hopefully someone can answer this cause I'm not too sure about it. On another site,(new celica) I saw a dyno for a 00 GTS, and it's peak hp hit 181. There was no forced induction, and the guy had pretty much all bolt ons, but no exhaust, and had his accessory belt off.
I thought that without some kind of forced induction, you could not exceed the hp created at the flywheel? Anyone know?

Also, I don't know if this has been talked about on this site before, and I'm not gonna look cause I'm not starting a new thread about it(laziness), but could it be possible that the GTS' actually generate more than 180bhp but more along the lines of say 190bhp? I've been looking at stock dynos, and it just seems that not a lot of power is lost from the engine to the drivetrain. Maybe it's just because they are really efficient as people have said, but is there any proof that the engines weren't under-rated by Toyota?


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Re: 190hp Toyota Celica TRD Sports-M - What's the tweak? [Re: slidr] #81644 Jan 13, 3:52pm Jan 13, 3:52pm
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Originally Posted by slidr
I thought that without some kind of forced induction, you could not exceed the hp created at the flywheel? Anyone know?


What are you smoking? Turbo/Supercharging is not the only way to make more power, if you wanna stay the NA route then it's just amatter of more air, fuel and raising the compression, but I wouldn't raise the compression on a 2zz... already high as it is. I would get a larger headgasket(and metal, not sure if toyota is using metal in all their engines now or what.. they should after the problems with the 7M) and upgrade the piston rings as well as the valvetrain.


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Re: 190hp Toyota Celica TRD Sports-M - What's the tweak? [Re: Death] #81645 Jan 13, 4:03pm Jan 13, 4:03pm
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Originally Posted by Death
Originally Posted by slidr
I thought that without some kind of forced induction, you could not exceed the hp created at the flywheel? Anyone know?


What are you smoking? Turbo/Supercharging is not the only way to make more power, if you wanna stay the NA route then it's just amatter of more air, fuel and raising the compression, but I wouldn't raise the compression on a 2zz... already high as it is. I would get a larger headgasket(and metal, not sure if toyota is using metal in all their engines now or what.. they should after the problems with the 7M) and upgrade the piston rings as well as the valvetrain.


werd


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Re: 190hp Toyota Celica TRD Sports-M - What's the tweak? [Re: NorwayGT] #81646 Jan 13, 7:00pm Jan 13, 7:00pm
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the main reasons for differnce in hp between the two, jdm and us spec is the ecu tuning (its more agressive,fuel maps and timing they were tuned to run on a higher octane gas)and the fact that the jdm does not have an egr valve system.(the egr system dilutes the Intake charge and robs hp.)On some of the older celicas esp turbo models the system was built into the head itself,this lack of egr in the head accounted for some hp in the jdm heads. its funny,i have seen some heads with the egr blocked off as if it was there but just blocked and i have seen some jdm heads that the egr was never a part of the design in the head!these heads might have a better flow advantage over those that were casted with provision for the egr system)i never checked the 7th gen us and the jdm to see where and how the egr system were on both of them cause it never came up.the exhausts on some jdm vehicles are different as well
ps: with the egr system that uses the vacuam hose to open the valve,i usually take the hose off and block it when racing so the valve does not open(this is for other cars i have never done it with my 7th gen celica cause its my "mobile office" and not my race car.


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Re: 190hp Toyota Celica TRD Sports-M - What's the tweak? [Re: Death] #81647 Jan 13, 9:08pm Jan 13, 9:08pm
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Originally Posted by Death

Originally Posted by slidr

I thought that without some kind of forced induction, you could not exceed the hp created at the flywheel? Anyone know?


What are you smoking? Turbo/Supercharging is not the only way to make more power, if you wanna stay the NA route then it's just amatter of more air, fuel and raising the compression, but I wouldn't raise the compression on a 2zz... already high as it is. I would get a larger headgasket(and metal, not sure if toyota is using metal in all their engines now or what.. they should after the problems with the 7M) and upgrade the piston rings as well as the valvetrain.
Just a question, settle the fuck down. I'm talking about power exceeding the bhp with NO ENGINE TAMPERING and just bolt-ons and minus a few parts. I'm not talking about fucking with the engine at all, just bolt-ons, and turbos/superchargers aren't the only types of forced induction.
I'm talking about the fact that I saw dynos where people exceeded the bhp with bolt-ons and without an accessory belt. I'm not passing shit off as fact so no need for you to get bitchy. It's called a question.


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Re: 190hp Toyota Celica TRD Sports-M - What's the tweak? [Re: slidr] #81648 Jan 13, 11:27pm Jan 13, 11:27pm
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Hey Slidr, IMO Toyota is under rating the 2ZZ engine, I think that it is making a lot more than 180 HP. If you look at some of the other dyno's over there, there are quite a few stock runs that are putting down around 162 - 165 HP to the wheels. That would only be around 10% loss to the wheels if the engine were really only making 180 HP.

If you have an Intake, exhuast, and header I think that it is pretty reasonable to expect 180 HP + to the wheels on a GTS.

Re: 190hp Toyota Celica TRD Sports-M - What's the tweak? [Re: isaac] #81649 Jan 14, 12:47am Jan 14, 12:47am
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the new lotus elise has the 2zz and its rated at 190hp.i read that they messed with the ecu and Intake. every thing else is the same as the gts.


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Re: 190hp Toyota Celica TRD Sports-M - What's the tweak? [Re: clockwork] #81650 Jan 14, 12:51am Jan 14, 12:51am
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and with just bolt ons...you can easily gain 15hp...Intake,header,pulley,and exhaust should give you at least that.


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Re: 190hp Toyota Celica TRD Sports-M - What's the tweak? [Re: isaac] #81651 Jan 14, 8:34am Jan 14, 8:34am
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The TRD Sports-M comes with the TRD exhaust and Air Filter. There's your 10hp. smile

Re: 190hp Toyota Celica TRD Sports-M - What's the tweak? [Re: isaac] #81652 Jan 14, 9:46am Jan 14, 9:46am
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It was my understanding that they changed the gear ratios on the sports-M celica. It allowed the car to be shifted and stay in lift easier and could also effect it's power to the wheels possibly, but not off the fly wheel.

Re: 190hp Toyota Celica TRD Sports-M - What's the tweak? [Re: LiquidG] #81653 Jan 14, 5:27pm Jan 14, 5:27pm
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My question was simply, can the car exceed the 180hp that Toyota says it has with bolt-ons alone, and no forced induction?


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Re: 190hp Toyota Celica TRD Sports-M - What's the tweak? [Re: slidr] #81654 Jan 14, 11:49pm Jan 14, 11:49pm
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Originally Posted by slidr
My question was simply, can the car exceed the 180hp that Toyota says it has with bolt-ons alone, and no forced induction?



Yes thumbsup


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Re: 190hp Toyota Celica TRD Sports-M - What's the tweak? [Re: clockwork] #81655 Jan 15, 2:06am Jan 15, 2:06am
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Originally Posted by clockwork
Originally Posted by slidr
My question was simply, can the car exceed the 180hp that Toyota says it has with bolt-ons alone, and no forced induction?



Yes thumbsup


Double yes. thumbsup

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