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isaac
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isaac Jan 13, 4:53am - #81339 
2001 Absolutely Red Toyota Celica GT
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[Interesting] Toyota Celica GTS recommended fuel type: 96 octane

After answering a quick question at:
https://www.celicahobby.com/forums/...5/best-automatic-transmission-fluid.html
Source: The owner's manual that comes with all new Toyota Celica

I decided to check under what it also says should be used for "FUEL"

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NOTE: The above image is from the 2000 Celica Owner's Manual. The below quote is from the 2001 Celica Owner's Manual, which includes few minor revisions (mostly grammar and spelling corrections). The specifications between the two are identical, though year 2000 manual states "Octane Rating of 95" and the year 2001 manual states "Octane Rating of 91" for the 2ZZ-GE engine (Celica GTS) - which is an obvious correction. It's also assumed that there is no difference in manuals between a "North American sold" Celica and those sold outside of that continent other than the obvious use of the different localized language. The tag on the underside of your Celica's Hood presumably also duplicates this suggested octane rating information of a "91" for all Celica 2ZZ-GE engine years.

Quote:

1ZZ-FE engine:
Unleaded gasoline, Octane Rating 87 (Research Octane Number 91) or higher

2ZZ-GE engine:
Select premium unleaded gasoline with an Octane Rating of 91 (Research Octane Number 96) or higher for optimum engine performance


If using higher octane would get you better engine performance output -- Higher MPGs vs Lower idle via ECU, A cleaner 'spark' -- wouldn't a better performing engine mean that it also gives you a bit more on the Horse Power business end of things? What type of adjustments does the ECU make in this case?

What is the difference in HP gain that you can get from a 96 Octane fuel compared to the 91 octane fuel, which is commonly sold here in the USA? Is it really going to make that much of a hp difference over all or will it keep your engine running better over a longer period of time - although you might get a better spark or consume less fuel and make better MPG.

I'm sure you guys can see where I'm going with this. What exactly is involved in making a "180hp" USA (where 91 octane is tops at 90% of gas stations here) into a "NA 190hp" setup - such as those found in locations where 96 octane fuel can be found without a problem?

Whats really is the difference between a 180HP GTS and a 190HP GTS?

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Steven
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Steven Jan 13, 5:32am - #81340 
2001 Spectra Blue Mica Toyota Celica GTS
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Riverside, CA
If you're interested in some fuel/octane info, click here:

http://www.prime-mover.org/Engines/GArticles/octane.html

You can buy high octane at some 76 or Shell gas stations. There is a motorcycle shop near my place that sells high octane fuel as well.

I am not an expert, engineer nor do I have any formal education on this topic. I just acquired this information from various sources.

I read somewhere that unless you retard your timing, high octane will do you no good (since higher octane burns slower).

High octane fuel will also smooth out a power curve on turbo/super-charged vehicles. It gets rid of pings and valleys in the power curve.

I believe high octane also contains more hydrocarbons which means that you'll have more black residue coming out of your tail pipe.
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Speed4TheNeed
Caleb
Speed4TheNeed Jan 13, 6:00am - #81341 

Caleb
2000 Toyota Celica

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New Orleans, LA
yeah, i forget where i heard that from to begin with...but i've never put anything besides premium fuel (91 octane) in my car.

the only exception has been the new shell v-power gasoline that is available here (there testing it here and 1 other city...unless they are done w/testing, not sure) i beleive its 93 octane..and my car LOVED it. thumbsup
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Steven
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Steven Jan 13, 6:14am - #81342 
2001 Spectra Blue Mica Toyota Celica GTS
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you know what, I think I'll buy some high octane fueland mix it with some pump fuel to get a high octane and see what happens
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Caleb
Speed4TheNeed Jan 13, 6:16am - #81343 

Caleb
2000 Toyota Celica

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Originally Posted by Steven
you know what, I think I'll buy some high octane fueland mix it with some pump fuel to get a high octane and see what happens


worth a try. i actually think i felt the difference when i put the 93 octane in place of the usual 91 octane. lemme know how it goes and depending upon that i might go buy some fuel injector as well thumbsup
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spaztikid
dikitzaps
spaztikid Jan 13, 8:29am - #81344 
dikitzaps
1974 Toyota Celica

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LA
Originally Posted by Steven
you know what, I think I'll buy some high octane fueland mix it with some pump fuel to get a high octane and see what happens


when you buy the octane booster it say's like 7 points or whatever on the bottle...read the back, it'll say that there are 10 points in every octane rating. so by puting in the octane booster your only getting 91.7 octane.
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Death
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Death Jan 13, 1:51pm - #81345 

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San Antonio, TX/Vancouver, WA
I get 93 here in texas. But yes if you can find a gas stations that sell high octane race fuel by the barrels.

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Caleb
Speed4TheNeed Jan 13, 2:20pm - #81346 

Caleb
2000 Toyota Celica

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New Orleans, LA
Originally Posted by spaztikid
Originally Posted by Steven
you know what, I think I'll buy some high octane fueland mix it with some pump fuel to get a high octane and see what happens


when you buy the octane booster it say's like 7 points or whatever on the bottle...read the back, it'll say that there are 10 points in every octane rating. so by puting in the octane booster your only getting 91.7 octane.


haha you serious?? that sux...i didn't know that at all. thanks for the headsup thumbsup
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DiabloGTS
Wheezy Joe
DiabloGTS Jan 13, 2:24pm - #81347 

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2002 Kawasaki Ninja 250

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Lafayette, LA
I use sunoco 93, and my car loves that.

However, on my georgia trip, I ran the entire time on chevron 91 with techrolean, or techron whatever it is. the car ran better, smoother, and got better MPG.

This is because where I live, we have "oxygenated" gas. It is supposed to "lower emissions" and it does, by about 10%

But, the effect on the car is 15% less gas mileage. People aren't going to drive less, so the net effect is 5% more emissions, and people buying more gas. thumbsdown

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Caleb
Speed4TheNeed Jan 13, 2:28pm - #81348 

Caleb
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^^dontcha just love politics? tree huggers get their way..and still lose. spineyes
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Blue_Bomber
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Blue_Bomber Jan 13, 3:16pm - #81349 
2000 Spectra Blue Mica Toyota Celica
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Freehold, NJ
Just an FYI, but Research Octane Number (RON) 96 is about the same as our 91. It's just a different way of calculating the octane number that they use in other countries. We use RON+MON/2, while most other countries just use RON. MON = Motor Octane Number. So pumping in 91 is fine, and you're not likely to see much of a gain going over 94 unless you're either using crappy gas, or a higher compression ratio.
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Caleb
Speed4TheNeed Jan 13, 3:24pm - #81350 

Caleb
2000 Toyota Celica

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New Orleans, LA
Originally Posted by Blue_Bomber
Just an FYI, but Research Octane Number (RON) 96 is about the same as our 91. It's just a different way of calculating the octane number that they use in other countries. We use RON+MON/2, while most other countries just use RON. MON = Motor Octane Number. So pumping in 91 is fine, and you're not likely to see much of a gain going over 94 unless you're either using crappy gas, or a higher compression ratio.


yes. this was said in the opening post...but thanks for the headsup on the extra information thumbsup
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Steven
ECelica Staff
Steven Jan 13, 3:31pm - #81351 
2001 Spectra Blue Mica Toyota Celica GTS
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Nicely said Blue!

Also, I believe the reason for having to use a higher octane fuel with a high compression is to avoid detonation and to have a more constant burn.

Originally Posted by Blue_Bomber
Just an FYI, but Research Octane Number (RON) 96 is about the same as our 91. It's just a different way of calculating the octane number that they use in other countries. We use RON+MON/2, while most other countries just use RON. MON = Motor Octane Number. So pumping in 91 is fine, and you're not likely to see much of a gain going over 94 unless you're either using crappy gas, or a higher compression ratio.
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hybridcelica
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hybridcelica Jan 13, 7:02pm - #81352 
2000 silver/blue Toyota Celica
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virgin islands
[quote=Steven]If you're interested in some fuel/octane info, click here:

http://www.prime-mover.org/Engines/GArticles/octane.html



I am not an expert, engineer nor do I have any formal education on this topic. I just acquired this information from various sources.

I read somewhere that unless you retard your timing, high octane will do you no good (since higher octane burns slower).
your statement should be "advance timing" not retard. winksteven.
higher octane do give you a performance advatage,egs the knock sensor that everyone is changing in the 02 along with the 2000 ecu allows you to rev higher.good fuel has a lot to do with how that knock sensor works!with good fuel the sensor pics up less knock at hi rpm and the ecu does not take out spark!if the sensor detects knock it will take out spark.thus making you slower!nb: some stand alone systems with knock sensors allow you to take out spark when knock is detected or even add fuel or both!on turbo charged cars you can see more boost with hi octane and you can squeeze a bigger shot of nitrous with hi octane. ethanol (not methanol toyota does not recomend it)) is a good additive for our cars if you want to raise the octane.just mix 9 or 8 to 1 one part ethanol.when i squeeze a big shot of nitrous i do it with a mixture of 4 to 1 93 octane gas and ethanol or c12 with 2 parts ethanol.i can tell you for a fact that hi octane makes our cars faster and it feels better driving slow. esp.when it comes to "pinging" in the manuals when moving from an almost stand still in 2nd or third gear!


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hybridcelica
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hybridcelica Jan 13, 7:08pm - #81353 
2000 silver/blue Toyota Celica
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virgin islands
Originally Posted by DiabloGTS
I use sunoco 93, and my car loves that.

However, on my georgia trip, I ran the entire time on chevron 91 with techrolean, or techron whatever it is. the car ran better, smoother, and got better MPG.

This is because where I live, we have "oxygenated" gas. It is supposed to "lower emissions" and it does, by about 10%

But, the effect on the car is 15% less gas mileage. People aren't going to drive less, so the net effect is 5% more emissions, and people buying more gas. thumbsdown

you ever heard of sunoco cam 2 supreme? awesome fuel! i had a 55 gallon drum when i had my gnx.we used to order it for power boat racing but the supplier messed one the orders and we swithced to c12 or c16.

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LiGhTniNgGT-S
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LiGhTniNgGT-S Jan 13, 7:31pm - #81354 
2003 Solar Yellow Toyota Celica
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Jacksonville, FL
Sorry I had to enter this... iono much about gas but I think Blue Bomber's signature pic freaking ruleZ.
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Steven
ECelica Staff
Steven Jan 13, 7:41pm - #81355 
2001 Spectra Blue Mica Toyota Celica GTS
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Riverside, CA
Told you I wasn't an expert. Thank you for correcting me.

Originally Posted by hybridcelica

Originally Posted by Steven

If you're interested in some fuel/octane info, click here:

http://www.prime-mover.org/Engines/GArticles/octane.html



I am not an expert, engineer nor do I have any formal education on this topic. I just acquired this information from various sources.

I read somewhere that unless you retard your timing, high octane will do you no good (since higher octane burns slower).
your statement should be "advance timing" not retard. winksteven.
higher octane do give you a performance advatage,egs the knock sensor that everyone is changing in the 02 along with the 2000 ecu allows you to rev higher.good fuel has a lot to do with how that knock sensor works!with good fuel the sensor pics up less knock at hi rpm and the ecu does not take out spark!if the sensor detects knock it will take out spark.thus making you slower!nb: some stand alone systems with knock sensors allow you to take out spark when knock is detected or even add fuel or both!on turbo charged cars you can see more boost with hi octane and you can squeeze a bigger shot of nitrous with hi octane. ethanol (not methanol toyota does not recomend it)) is a good additive for our cars if you want to raise the octane.just mix 9 or 8 to 1 one part ethanol.when i squeeze a big shot of nitrous i do it with a mixture of 4 to 1 93 octane gas and ethanol or c12 with 2 parts ethanol.i can tell you for a fact that hi octane makes our cars faster and it feels better driving slow. esp.when it comes to "pinging" in the manuals when moving from an almost stand still in 2nd or third gear!

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RevMonster
Masta OC
RevMonster Jan 13, 9:21pm - #81356 

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2003 Toyota Celica

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Orange County, Ca
If anyone ever drives out to Arizona, some of the stations around Lake Havasu have 100 octane "Racing Fuel", as they label it on the pump...

I was so tempted to try it, but didn't want to be followed home by a cloud of black smoke.

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VSGTS14
05 WRB
VSGTS14 Jan 13, 9:30pm - #81357 

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i get 91 in mine or whatever's the best.

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hephaestus
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hephaestus Jan 14, 1:19am - #81358 
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New Jersey
Originally Posted by RevMonster
If anyone ever drives out to Arizona, some of the stations around Lake Havasu have 100 octane "Racing Fuel", as they label it on the pump...

I was so tempted to try it, but didn't want to be followed home by a cloud of black smoke.

I run almost exclusively (unless out of town) 100 octane gas. I had never had a cloud of black smoke, you should have tried it out. I notice that my Celica just runs better. Not amazingly better and it certainly didn't run bad before. Acceleration seems to be a tad quicker and definitely no engine noises like pings whether stressing the engine on an uphill or just cruising around.
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slidr
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slidr Jan 14, 1:29am - #81359 

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2000 Toyota Celica

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Saint Louis, MO
Originally Posted by RevMonster
If anyone ever drives out to Arizona, some of the stations around Lake Havasu have 100 octane "Racing Fuel", as they label it on the pump...

I was so tempted to try it, but didn't want to be followed home by a cloud of black smoke.
Only racing fuel I have seen in my city is leaded shit that no one ever buys. rolleyes

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Meryem13
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Meryem13 Jan 14, 9:56pm - #81360 
2001 Black Toyota Celica
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2001 Toyota Celica

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Buffalo, NY
The Delta Sonic around the corner from me has racing fuel (100 octane) as well, and when I have extra cash I fill up on it, it really does run a lot smoother with it... but it cost's around $40 to fill the tank! eek So only occasionally, other than that I use premium (called super plus at Mobile) for everyday.
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Double_Ohh_GTS
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Double_Ohh_GTS Jan 15, 1:19am - #81361 
2000 Suzuka Blue Toyota Celica
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2000 Toyota Celica

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Vancouver, Canada
i run on unleaded 94 octane in Vancouver, BC
it's called super clean

IMO the higher the octane the cleaner it's supposed to burn
so the i figure the lower the octane rating the blacker the smoke and not the other way around
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Charles
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Charles Jan 22, 7:03am - #81362 

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2000 Toyota / Honda Celica

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Canada
i run 95 (most of the time), 96 (when i'm in ville st-laurent)
petro canada : montreal

burns a lot better than lower octane fuel
also noticed engine feels more powerfull (more kick to it without having to slam the gas pedal)
lastly, i can't confirm for sure, but i notice i run futher more miles when i put a higher octane fuel compared to a lower octane fuel. i can put a full tank of gas of 96 octane and last 1 week without before having to refill tank (i travel atleast 40km/day - school/work)
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RedDevil
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RedDevil Jan 22, 10:53pm - #81363 
2002 Red Toyota Celica
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2002 Toyota Celica

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From other people posts..
It seems like there are no octane higher then 91 availble in the west coast...
I live in Las Vegas and there are no higher then 91..
I've been to few cities in Cali.. and it's all 91 or lower...
Only higher octane I could get is 100 from 76.. it's racing fuel.. which isn't availble from all 76...

How come other states like more of mid to west gets 93's or higher and daily driving??

I don't think there aren't much advantages from using higher then 91 octane for daily driving... which is for GTS...
And I guess 87 would be sufficient for GT...

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Rave669
Senior Member
Rave669 Jan 23, 3:45am - #81364 

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2002 Toyota Celica

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Lisle, IL
I think it's because of CARB legislation. Here in the midwest, all the premium fuel is 93 octane (a couple cheapo places sell 91 octane I think) Like, Out by my brother's place in Wisconsin, they don't even emissions test their cars! Gas is cheaper and better too!

I can get 100 octane at a few places. some 76 shops sell it, delta sonic sells it, and you can also get it at race shops and the dragstrip. it's going for around 4-5 bucks a gallon these days, so you may just be better off mixing race gas with pump gas to get good results thumbsup

I've also taken the time a while back to put together Rave669's handy-dandy octane blending chart!!!

I've posted it a few times in the past, so, for anybody interested, they can view it at the location below...

Go here to view my Octane blending chart!

Have Phun! happywink

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hephaestus
Specialist
hephaestus Jan 23, 4:24am - #81365 
Specialist

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New Jersey
I drive almost a week on a half a tank of 100 octane gas and I love it as much as I loved it 3 years ago. Sure it's expensive and if I drove 100 miles a day I wouldn't be getting it or mixing it. I go straight 100 because I don't drive that far anymore. Do I mix it?, wasn't really worth it with the differences in 91, 93, or 94 between gas stations. I go balls out 100 or better when the fuel light is on, or 2 dollars of 93 or 94 until I can burn it off or mix it with a full tank of 100. I love that S**T in my Celica.
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isaac
ECelica Admin
isaac Jan 23, 6:18am - #81366 
2001 Absolutely Red Toyota Celica GT
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Originally Posted by Blue_Bomber
Just an FYI, but Research Octane Number (RON) 96 is about the same as our 91. It's just a different way of calculating the octane number that they use in other countries. We use RON+MON/2, while most other countries just use RON. MON = Motor Octane Number. So pumping in 91 is fine, and you're not likely to see much of a gain going over 94 unless you're either using crappy gas, or a higher compression ratio.


Thanks - Good stuff thumbsup


I also came across this while searching around for answers.
http://www.bazonkers.com/octanechart.htm

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