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trikdcelica
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trikdcelica Mar 8, 12:21am - #413306 

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INTAKE EXTENSION TO MAKE FORCED INDUCTION?

HAS ANYBODY HEARD OF AN EXTENSION KIT THAT GOES FROM YOUR Intake TO THE AIRDAM OR Hood? ITS SUPPOSE TO BE LIKE RAM AIR. THE AIR IS FORCED THROUGH A PIPE INTO THE Intake. DOES ANYONE HAVE THIS? HOW MUCH PSI DOES IT FORCE, IF ANY AT ALL? IT SOUNDS GOOD IF YOU THINK ABOUT AIR GOIN 80 MPH INTO AN Intake. WHAT DO YOU THINK? ANY THOUGHTS.
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vcel523
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vcel523 Mar 8, 12:28am - #413307 

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there is something like this in the installs section. HOWEVER, this is NOT forced induction. That is only done through a turbo or supercharger. Even with air going in at that speed, its not the same as forced induction. You could also get a CEL cause of all the turbulent air going throught the maf.
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QTRMLR_1 Mar 8, 12:49am - #413308 

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please watch the all-caps.

If there were such an Intake it would have to be custom made to fit a custom Hood. you would still want a filter, and you would have to have the air collection tunnel pressure sealed around the filter for maximum effect. the Hood would merely have a big scoop to fit around the contraption when closed.

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QTRMLR_1 Mar 8, 1:05am - #413309 

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btw, the air tunnel would be off center on the left. the Intake would naturally curve 90 degrees to point toward the front of the car. you may want to have a Hood that doesn't have the center scoop for aesthetic reasons. A good deal of money would have to be spent to make the work look like quality. And then the overall appeal is questionable. look at pro sport compact cars N/A and turbo. some of them have this tunnel in the Hood or bumper. of course they don't use a filter, so the challenge will be greater for application on a street car.

and then the gains are in question compared to the money spent. I'm sure gains are achievable if done right, but you won't know until you've shelled out a lot. I wouldn't be surprised if 1-2 psi could be achieved at high speeds. all motor is expensive. it'd be great if some company would develop a true ram air kit like the one I have described. isn't there a company that starts with "T" and ends in "R"? grin jk Easy_C, you guys are doing great stuff already and it'd be wrong to even suggest a ram air kit when your Intake is awesome.

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trikdcelica
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trikdcelica Mar 8, 5:32am - #413310 

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i don't know who told you that it ain't forced air, but to me air gone that speed is force to me. i know its not usually referred to as being forced( only superchargers and turbos) but it should be called forced air. i'm gonna try it out and see if it works. ill post some pics later and tell everybody. just get bored sometimes and feel like tinkerin with some ideas. oh and

sorry about the caps, i was just trying to make it appealing so it would catch your eye. i guess it worked. a little too well. thumbsup
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QTRMLR_1
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QTRMLR_1 Mar 8, 6:42am - #413311 

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it's usually referred to as a "ram air" Intake system. yes "ram" means "force/forced", but as you pointed out that term "forced induction" is reserved for turbos, superchargers, and even nitrous.

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RedCeli
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RedCeli Mar 8, 6:43am - #413312 
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I believe pep boys sells extensions for cold air Intakes or sumthing...is this what you're talking about?? confused

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GT4
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GT4 Mar 8, 6:52am - #413313 

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Originally Posted by trikdcelica

i don't know who told you that it ain't forced air, but to me air gone that speed is force to me. i know its not usually referred to as being forced( only superchargers and turbos) but it should be called forced air. i'm gonna try it out and see if it works. ill post some pics later and tell everybody. just get bored sometimes and feel like tinkerin with some ideas. oh and

sorry about the caps, i was just trying to make it appealing so it would catch your eye. i guess it worked. a little too well. thumbsup

The faster the air moves the lower the pressure it is.
Who told me that? the guy name Bernoulli.
Turbocharger is not equal fan!
You will not increase pressure in the Intake system with
a fan or other devices that just "speed up" air velocity.

Despite that fact, ECU in NA car wasn't designed for
positive pressure in Intake manifold.
That's why you cannot just turbo a car without proper controlling.

And by the way, typing in CAP = shouting and is considered rude.

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QTRMLR_1 Mar 8, 6:56am - #413314 

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also, you would probably benefit from having an Air Filter open to the front (the circular surface). for example the Apexi Power Intake:

http://www.apexi-usa.com/intake_powerintake.asp

you can find it on ebay.
1953517368-Apexi Power Intake.jpg

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QTRMLR_1 Mar 8, 7:04am - #413315 

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Originally Posted by GT4
Originally Posted by trikdcelica
i don't know who told you that it ain't forced air, but to me air gone that speed is force to me. i know its not usually referred to as being forced( only superchargers and turbos) but it should be called forced air. i'm gonna try it out and see if it works. ill post some pics later and tell everybody. just get bored sometimes and feel like tinkerin with some ideas. oh and

sorry about the caps, i was just trying to make it appealing so it would catch your eye. i guess it worked. a little too well. thumbsup

The faster the air moves the lower the pressure it is.
Who told me that? the guy name Bernoulli.
Turbocharger is not equal fan!
You will not increase pressure in the Intake system with
a fan or other devices that just "speed up" air velocity.

Despite that fact, ECU in NA car wasn't designed for
positive pressure in Intake manifold.
That's why you cannot just turbo a car without proper controlling.

And by the way, typing in CAP = shouting and is considered rude.


who said anything about a fan??? don't think you're on the same page, er thread.

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GT4
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GT4 Mar 8, 7:08am - #413316 

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I did not say he said fan. I'm trying to expalin that by just increasing speed of the air, it will not increase pressure of the air in the Intake. Fan and turbo is the most common misunderstood for the people who don't really know how compressor works.

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QTRMLR_1 Mar 8, 7:33am - #413317 

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ok, ic but I think he merely wasn't clear on his understanding. his "air gone that speed" could mean he is saying the mere fact of speed creates pressure, or he may be just saying it is a requirement to be traveling at least a certain speed for the ram air system to show any benefit.

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GT4
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GT4 Mar 8, 7:52am - #413318 

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Originally Posted by trikdcelica
HOW MUCH PSI DOES IT FORCE,

Originally Posted by trikdcelica
IT SOUNDS GOOD IF YOU THINK ABOUT AIR GOIN 80 MPH INTO AN INTAKE.

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QTRMLR_1 Mar 8, 8:12am - #413319 

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Originally Posted by GT4
Originally Posted by trikdcelica
HOW MUCH PSI DOES IT FORCE,


it refers to the ram air system. force is perhaps bad word choice. how much psi does the ram air system generate?

Originally Posted by trikdcelica
IT SOUNDS GOOD IF YOU THINK ABOUT AIR GOIN 80 MPH INTO AN INTAKE.


ok...he's not alleging 80mph does anything. he's saying it sounds good. imo I think you're drawing conclusions and over-interpreting his statements. until he's clear I wouldn't judge. imo I think in this case it'd be fine to provide the right info, but not assume he is wrong in his mind.

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GT4
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GT4 Mar 8, 8:18am - #413320 

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Fair enough smile

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QTRMLR_1 Mar 8, 8:50am - #413321 

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for the sake of general education:

I believe you know GT4 (but I won't assume tongue):

but Bernoulli's principle refers to static pressure, which is the pressure felt by an object suspended in the fluid and moving in it. as velocity increases, static pressure drops. this pressure is static because the suspended object is not moving relative to the fluid.

however, static pressure is not to be confused with ram pressure, which is the pressure felt by an object because it is moving relative to the fluid. basically the fluid is ramming into the object, or vice versa. the ram pressure increases when the speed increases. this explains the stronger force felt by your hand when it is held in a fast moving current. pressure is force divided by area.

SO: imo trikdcelica intuitively talks of ram pressure when he talks about high speeds.

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GT4
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GT4 Mar 8, 9:24am - #413322 

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Originally Posted by QTRMLR_1
but Bernoulli's principle refers to static pressure, which is the pressure felt by an object suspended in the fluid and moving in it. as velocity increases, static pressure drops. this pressure is static because the suspended object is not moving relative to the fluid.


And that's how "forced induction" works.
Increasing static pressure so that more molecules of Oxygen
are packed into the cylinders.

Originally Posted by QTRMLR_1
however, static pressure is not to be confused with ram pressure, which is the pressure felt by an object because it is moving relative to the fluid. basically the fluid is ramming into the object, or vice versa. the ram pressure increases when the speed increases. this explains the stronger force felt by your hand when it is held in a fast moving current. pressure is force divided by area.

which doesn't do much in real life considering increasing performance gain.
In everyday use, ram air mostly benefits from getting colder air from outside engine bay. You will have to drive insanely fast just to make minimal increase in performance caused by ram effect.
http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=41295


Originally Posted by QTRMLR_1
SO: imo trikdcelica intuitively talks of ram pressure when he talks about high speeds.

Could be. The topic "Intake EXTENSION TO MAKE FORCED INDUCTION??"
is kinda mislead.

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QTRMLR_1 Mar 8, 10:04am - #413323 

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yes I wrote the gain won't be much for the effort or cost. in that rx8 article the guy mentions it'd be feasible for a 1 psi bonus on a 200 hp car to make about 13 hp at high speeds. later on, when questioned he makes clear his opinion ram air is not worthless, just not practical for "normal vehicle speeds". yes no doubt its application is purely racing, if that needs to be clarified. certainly not much help in the 1/8 mile, but more in the 1/4. And more for those who race on the freeway up to 130+ mph. Easy_C has been up to 159 mph. Lucky has been up to 150 mph.

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celicatuner
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celicatuner Mar 8, 11:06am - #413324 
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I heard on a 400hp engine ram air is only good for about 5hp or so, but that's probably at lower speeds so on our car maybe 2hp at normal 50mph or so. of course once your at cruising speeds you only need about 20hp to stay at those speeds HP is only needed for accelleration.
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GTSGhostRida Mar 8, 2:32pm - #413325 

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you can answer all your questions by pressing ctrl+alt+del twice..
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trikdcelica
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trikdcelica Mar 8, 10:13pm - #413326 

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the reason i put forced air is b/c everytime i see the word ram air used its usually associated with just a short Intake system. im not talking about a short (RAM AIR) Intake system. im talking about ramming or forcing the air into the Intake by the speeds im goin. b/c the air has to go somewhere.the air isn't goin to come back out or stop b/c of the pressure of the oncoming air is greater. i simply thought if i go fast enough then that equals more air into the Intake. mixed with more gas, you'd think more hp. im not talking about major hp gains. just talkin about a little advantage over someone else on the interstate. ive had my car to 140 and its a 2000 gt. i thought i might could get there a little quicker this way.
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trikdcelica
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trikdcelica Mar 8, 10:16pm - #413327 

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Originally Posted by QTRMLR_1
also, you would probably benefit from having an Air Filter open to the front (the circular surface). for example the Apexi Power Intake:

http://www.apexi-usa.com/intake_powerintake.asp

you can find it on ebay.


weapon r has an Intake like the one i am describing. you can find it on their website. it looks like a flex tubing with a rectangular funnel at the top, like you could hook it up to you Hood scoop and it runs into one of their Intakes.
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trikdcelica
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trikdcelica Mar 8, 10:21pm - #413328 

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Originally Posted by GT4
Originally Posted by trikdcelica
i don't know who told you that it ain't forced air, but to me air gone that speed is force to me. i know its not usually referred to as being forced( only superchargers and turbos) but it should be called forced air. i'm gonna try it out and see if it works. ill post some pics later and tell everybody. just get bored sometimes and feel like tinkerin with some ideas. oh and

sorry about the caps, i was just trying to make it appealing so it would catch your eye. i guess it worked. a little too well. thumbsup

The faster the air moves the lower the pressure it is.
Who told me that? the guy name Bernoulli.
Turbocharger is not equal fan!
You will not increase pressure in the Intake system with
a fan or other devices that just "speed up" air velocity.

Despite that fact, ECU in NA car wasn't designed for
positive pressure in Intake manifold.
That's why you cannot just turbo a car without proper controlling.

And by the way, typing in CAP = shouting and is considered rude.


cryDON'T GET YOUR PANTIES IN A WAD! = mr. know it all gettin upset! thumbsup
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QTRMLR_1
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QTRMLR_1 Mar 8, 10:41pm - #413329 

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Originally Posted by trikdcelica
Originally Posted by QTRMLR_1
also, you would probably benefit from having an Air Filter open to the front (the circular surface). for example the Apexi Power Intake:

http://www.apexi-usa.com/intake_powerintake.asp

you can find it on ebay.


weapon r has an intake like the one i am describing. you can find it on their website. it looks like a flex tubing with a rectangular funnel at the top, like you could hook it up to you hood scoop and it runs into one of their intakes.


just believe me when I tell you it's called ram air. it's a concept. you would call the object/construction perhaps a ram air induction system or ram air Intake. That is different from a Short Ram Intake.

true, the weapon-R filter is open on the front...though:
weapon-R has done a great job at marketing and getting a magazine to show it had the most gains over other name brands. I don't believe it. In fact, asking around and talking to people it's generally agreed upon that weapon-r s**. I'm talking about the whole Intake system. The system for the Celica is horrible. I was uninformed enough to try it, and had major bogging from that 3" tube. I did the Blue_Bomber mod and it was much better.

the ram air system advertised by weapon-R is part of what that RX8 guy was warning about: faulty claims and false ram air systems. there are very few true ram air systems and ones that work for that matter. a flex tube sucking up cold air is not going to cut it. you're going to need a custom-engineered ram air system for your car by one who builds pro race cars or is on the same level.

Aside from Intake systems, the Apexi filter is generally regarded as the highest flowing. Some don't like it as a daily driver Intake, because it is not oiled and doesn't stop water as well as oiled ones like K&N.

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trikdcelica
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trikdcelica Mar 8, 11:13pm - #413330 

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Originally Posted by QTRMLR_1
Originally Posted by trikdcelica
Originally Posted by QTRMLR_1
also, you would probably benefit from having an Air Filter open to the front (the circular surface). for example the Apexi Power Intake:

http://www.apexi-usa.com/intake_powerintake.asp

you can find it on ebay.


weapon r has an intake like the one i am describing. you can find it on their website. it looks like a flex tubing with a rectangular funnel at the top, like you could hook it up to you hood scoop and it runs into one of their intakes.


just believe me when I tell you it's called ram air. it's a concept. you would call the object/construction perhaps a ram air induction system or ram air Intake. That is different from a Short Ram Intake.

true, the weapon-R filter is open on the front...though:
weapon-R has done a great job at marketing and getting a magazine to show it had the most gains over other name brands. I don't believe it. In fact, asking around and talking to people it's generally agreed upon that weapon-r s**. I'm talking about the whole Intake system. The system for the Celica is horrible. I was uninformed enough to try it, and had major bogging from that 3" tube. I did the Blue_Bomber mod and it was much better.

the ram air system advertised by weapon-R is part of what that RX8 guy was warning about: faulty claims and false ram air systems. there are very few true ram air systems and ones that work for that matter. a flex tube sucking up cold air is not going to cut it. you're going to need a custom-engineered ram air system for your car by one who builds pro race cars or is on the same level.

Aside from intake systems, the Apexi filter is generally regarded as the highest flowing. Some don't like it as a daily driver intake, because it is not oiled and doesn't stop water as well as oiled ones like K&N.


i didn't actually get the weapon r. its the same concept though. i have an AEM CAI. i replaced the filter with one like you pictured earlier. it is open on the top and has a perfect connector to the piping just like the connection to your throttle body for the CAI. so air escaping isn't a problem. your right about the weapon r Intake though. it is open where the hose and filter connect. thats one reason why i didn't get that. thanks though. thumbsup
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Lucky_317
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Lucky_317 Mar 12, 2:46am - #413331 

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Originally Posted by trikdcelica
cryDON'T GET YOUR PANTIES IN A WAD! = mr. know it all gettin upset! thumbsup


he's telling you some goo dto know iformation. you might wanna pay attention instead of being so critical.

thats the way it works around here. If you ask a question be polite enough to listen to the people who actually know what they are talking about.


"not knowing something does NOT make you stupid. not LISTENING makes you stupid."

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trikdcelica
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trikdcelica Mar 12, 4:21am - #413332 

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Originally Posted by Lucky_317
Originally Posted by trikdcelica
cryDON'T GET YOUR PANTIES IN A WAD! = mr. know it all gettin upset! thumbsup


he's telling you some goo dto know iformation. you might wanna pay attention instead of being so critical.

thats the way it works around here. If you ask a question be polite enough to listen to the people who actually know what they are talking about.


"not knowing something does NOT make you stupid. not LISTENING makes you stupid."


that was my reply for him saying that typing in CAPS was rude. i was just trying to get everyones attention. he did in fact have good info that wasnt the problem.
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GT4
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GT4 Mar 12, 7:09am - #413333 

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Originally Posted by trikdcelica
Originally Posted by Lucky_317
Originally Posted by trikdcelica
cryDON'T GET YOUR PANTIES IN A WAD! = mr. know it all gettin upset! thumbsup


he's telling you some goo dto know iformation. you might wanna pay attention instead of being so critical.

thats the way it works around here. If you ask a question be polite enough to listen to the people who actually know what they are talking about.


"not knowing something does NOT make you stupid. not LISTENING makes you stupid."


that was my reply for him saying that typing in CAPS was rude. i was just trying to get everyones attention. he did in fact have good info that wasnt the problem.


Get everyones attention?
Look at your post history.
How many time do you type in CAP? thumbsdown
This is just an example.

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Lucky_317 Mar 12, 9:08am - #413334 

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Originally Posted by GT4
Originally Posted by trikdcelica
Originally Posted by Lucky_317
Originally Posted by trikdcelica
cryDON'T GET YOUR PANTIES IN A WAD! = mr. know it all gettin upset! thumbsup


he's telling you some goo dto know iformation. you might wanna pay attention instead of being so critical.

thats the way it works around here. If you ask a question be polite enough to listen to the people who actually know what they are talking about.


"not knowing something does NOT make you stupid. not LISTENING makes you stupid."


that was my reply for him saying that typing in CAPS was rude. i was just trying to get everyones attention. he did in fact have good info that wasnt the problem.


Get everyones attention?
Look at your post history.
How many time do you type in CAP? thumbsdown
This is just an example.

Linked Image


rofl owned

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