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XxMerlinxX
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XxMerlinxX Feb 22, 12:48am - #406063 
2000 Silver Toyota Celica
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Hartsville/Greenwood, SC
I refuse...

To believe that the auto GTS cannot be competitive at the dragstrip. I'm talking with Level 10 about a torque converter with higher stall speed. We've pretty much agreed that that alone will not help. I'm gonna be shooting 50-75 out of the hole. Hopefully this will help with the auto's problem of slug like speed from the line. Anybody else have any suggestions or ideas?

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EuRoBoYGT
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EuRoBoYGT Feb 22, 12:51am - #406064 

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a supercharger that will help with the take off thumbsup

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XxMerlinxX
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XxMerlinxX Feb 22, 12:55am - #406065 
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Originally Posted by EuRoBoYGT
a supercharger that will help with the take off thumbsup


Haha, yeah, but that's a lot of money for just a little bit of horse power. I'm willing to throw down some change on it, but not that much.

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Johnsgt
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Johnsgt Feb 22, 1:11am - #406066 
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Your out of luck, without a lot of money it wont be competitive at the drag strip. I dunno what you mean by competitive but not even the 6 spd gts turboed is competitive. It all depends on your definition of competitive, unless ur running 11s i dont consider it competitive. However just to get yours even into 14s is gonna take a grip of money.
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slidr
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slidr Feb 22, 1:14am - #406067 

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Saint Louis, MO
An aftermarket torque converter won't provide any miracle gains for a Celica.

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SCOTT03
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SCOTT03 Feb 22, 1:40am - #406068 
2000 Black Toyota Celica
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problem is more than launch, gearing sucks for NA, drops you way out of lift. Best bet is turbo or supercharge, even there with drive train loss good luck.

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XxMerlinxX
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XxMerlinxX Feb 22, 1:43am - #406069 
2000 Silver Toyota Celica
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Hartsville/Greenwood, SC
Nah, I think a big part of the problem is the launch. You guys with the sticks have no idea how slow the auto is off the line. Tortoises crawl faster. And while we drop down pretty low in 2nd, we stay in lift longer. I stick with other stock GTS's if we're just messing around on the street. But if we slow to a stop, I'm screwed. I think there's potential there, and I'm gonna try to find it.

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SLVCELI
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SLVCELI Feb 22, 1:52am - #406070 
2002 Liquid Silver Metall Toyota Celica GT
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West Chester, Ohio
Originally Posted by XxMerlinxX
Nah, I think a big part of the problem is the launch. You guys with the sticks have no idea how slow the auto is off the line. Tortoises crawl faster.


laughsilly So true. Well good luck. I am interested in the results thumbsup

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cr4sh
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cr4sh Feb 22, 4:07am - #406071 
2003 Black Toyota Celica
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CA
transmission has nothing to do with engine power with the celica...its all there...
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Lasherccl
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Lasherccl Feb 22, 4:12am - #406072 

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Originally Posted by cr4sh
transmission has nothing to do with engine power with the celica...its all there...


rofl rofl

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XxMerlinxX
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XxMerlinxX Feb 22, 4:15am - #406073 
2000 Silver Toyota Celica
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Hartsville/Greenwood, SC
Originally Posted by cr4sh
transmission has nothing to do with engine power with the celica...its all there...


First, the transmission has a lot to do with power. On a stick, about 15% of power is lost in the transmission. It's about a 30% loss on an auto.

That's not my point in any case though. If I up the stall speed of the torque converter, that means I'd actually be able to launch my car instead of just starting from a dead stop. This makes your run faster.

Got it now?

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celimangts17
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celimangts17 Feb 22, 4:57am - #406074 

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well i ran a 17.3 stock on my car, ran a 17.7 this last time but i added a heavy ass system and Intake and exhaust. but my r/t improved ALOT! i had a .50 r/t stock and a .10 with Intake and exhaust. what i do is just 2k brake drop off the line. you can beat some cars from a dead stop. i beat an inline 6 truck from a stop at the strip and i could just barely hang with a 63 vette. i dont think ur gonna get much power from the auto to be competitive. i think competitive for you and me would be down to the 15s or 16s. thats just about as good as we are gonna get. if you want lower than that, plan on what i want to do...a 6spd swap. then you can run lower if you use f/i with it. but for now you can still do really good. just go to the track and enter into a time trial competition like i did and you will do awesome. i won a plaque because i was able to be consistent with my times. and the auto tranny is great for consistency. may be a slow time ur consistent with but you will run the same thing or close if you just put the car in drive and take overdrive off and 2k brake drop off the line. just dont expect lower than a 16 with the auto tranny, i know it sucks to hear but its the truth.

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XxMerlinxX
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XxMerlinxX Feb 22, 5:02am - #406075 
2000 Silver Toyota Celica
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Originally Posted by celimangts17
well i ran a 17.3 stock on my car, ran a 17.7 this last time but i added a heavy ass system and intake and exhaust. but my r/t improved ALOT! i had a .50 r/t stock and a .10 with intake and exhaust. what i do is just 2k brake drop off the line. you can beat some cars from a dead stop. i beat an inline 6 truck from a stop at the strip and i could just barely hang with a 63 vette. i dont think ur gonna get much power from the auto to be competitive. i think competitive for you and me would be down to the 15s or 16s. thats just about as good as we are gonna get. if you want lower than that, plan on what i want to do...a 6spd swap. then you can run lower if you use f/i with it. but for now you can still do really good. just go to the track and enter into a time trial competition like i did and you will do awesome. i won a plaque because i was able to be consistent with my times. and the auto tranny is great for consistency. may be a slow time ur consistent with but you will run the same thing or close if you just put the car in drive and take overdrive off and 2k brake drop off the line. just dont expect lower than a 16 with the auto tranny, i know it sucks to hear but its the truth.


Stock, I run a 16.9xx consistantly, but that's neither here nor there.

You think I won't be able to do better than 16's with a 75 shot of n20, higher stall speed, tpr Intake & exhaust? You ran a 17.7 after you added an exhaust and Intake. Evidently that system's pretty heavy, just think if you had lost that much weight. I think that most auto owners are naturally pesimistic since it's been engrained since the car came out, that auto's will always be slow.

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ct
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ct Feb 22, 5:14am - #406076 

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Woodland Hills, CA
Originally Posted by XxMerlinxX
Originally Posted by cr4sh
transmission has nothing to do with engine power with the celica...its all there...

It's about a 30% loss on an auto.


more like 20-22%...

Originally posted by SKOOF:
yoru such a clown, i wish you lived in nyc, i would love to just give you the beating that youve probably never gotten in your life.
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ct
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ct Feb 22, 5:15am - #406077 

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btw-auto gts' have been clocked at 16.6 with i/e...

Originally posted by SKOOF:
yoru such a clown, i wish you lived in nyc, i would love to just give you the beating that youve probably never gotten in your life.
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Johnsgt
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Johnsgt Feb 22, 5:22am - #406078 
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Yeah, so even with a 75 shot and a higher stall speed, thats still mid-high 15s. Like i said without a grip of money you wont even get into 14s.
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Pnoy
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Pnoy Feb 22, 5:28am - #406079 
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Originally Posted by Johnsgt
Yeah, so even with a 75 shot and a higher stall speed, thats still mid-high 15s. Like i said without a grip of money you wont even get into 14s.


I agree thumbsup and yeah GTS have the lift but how fast can you go to lift at 6.8K rpm with an automatic? TRANSMISSION MAKES A LOT OF DIFFERENCE.. tongue
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XxMerlinxX
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XxMerlinxX Feb 22, 5:42am - #406080 
2000 Silver Toyota Celica
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Originally Posted by Johnsgt
Yeah, so even with a 75 shot and a higher stall speed, thats still mid-high 15s. Like i said without a grip of money you wont even get into 14s.


Do you have any proof to back that up? Have you ever heard of an auto GTS with a higher stall speed? Have you seen any timeslips from auto GTS's with n20?

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XxMerlinxX
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XxMerlinxX Feb 22, 5:44am - #406081 
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Originally Posted by Pnoy
Originally Posted by Johnsgt
Yeah, so even with a 75 shot and a higher stall speed, thats still mid-high 15s. Like i said without a grip of money you wont even get into 14s.


I agree thumbsup and yeah GTS have the lift but how fast can you go to lift at 6.8K rpm with an automatic? TRANSMISSION MAKES A LOT OF DIFFERENCE.. tongue


I don't understand that at all. Are you saying an automatic transmission stops the rate of acceleration at a certain velocity?

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ct
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ct Feb 22, 6:10am - #406082 

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Woodland Hills, CA
Originally Posted by XxMerlinxX
Originally Posted by Johnsgt
Yeah, so even with a 75 shot and a higher stall speed, thats still mid-high 15s. Like i said without a grip of money you wont even get into 14s.


Do you have any proof to back that up? Have you ever heard of an auto GTS with a higher stall speed? Have you seen any timeslips from auto GTS's with n20?


he doesn't need slips. just thnk about it. a auto gts does 16.6 tops with Intake and exhaust. a 50 to 75 shot of n20 will only lessen the time by a little more than a second. although 1 second is equivilent to a couple of car lengths...nitrous is not enough to get you to 14s...the auto just does not have the gearing nor is it able to rev high and drop like a manual.

Originally posted by SKOOF:
yoru such a clown, i wish you lived in nyc, i would love to just give you the beating that youve probably never gotten in your life.
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XxMerlinxX
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XxMerlinxX Feb 22, 6:31am - #406083 
2000 Silver Toyota Celica
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Originally Posted by ct
Originally Posted by XxMerlinxX
Originally Posted by Johnsgt
Yeah, so even with a 75 shot and a higher stall speed, thats still mid-high 15s. Like i said without a grip of money you wont even get into 14s.


Do you have any proof to back that up? Have you ever heard of an auto GTS with a higher stall speed? Have you seen any timeslips from auto GTS's with n20?


he doesn't need slips. just thnk about it. a auto gts does 16.6 tops with intake and exhaust. a 50 to 75 shot of n20 will only lessen the time by a little more than a second. although 1 second is equivilent to a couple of car lengths...nitrous is not enough to get you to 14s...the auto just does not have the gearing nor is it able to rev high and drop like a manual.


LOL, I keep having to repeat myself. Yes, the auto doesn't have the ability to rev high and drop like a manual. That's why I want to up the stall speed of the torque converter, so I can do that very thing! Nobody has done any of this, so we just don't know.

Bottom line, I think that the auto can be a lot faster than what it is now, that's all. I'm not saying I'll be able to do 13's or even low 14's. Maybe with more mods, but we'll just have to see how it goes.

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renfield90
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renfield90 Feb 22, 6:41am - #406084 

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Tempe, AZ
I agree with ct. 4 speeds for a torque-starved high-end engine is just asking to be slow. If you compare the auto and manual gear ratios the auto is basically like a manual going from first to third gear...except first gear is very tall and bogs you down.

That said, don't be afraid to mod the auto tranny to go faster. Level 10 has a few other things too; I forgot what they call it but it makes your shifts quicker, harder (harsher) by changing the way it shifts (cause stock it tries to act like a luxury item).

Can an auto GTS be competitive at the track? Sure, look at Rod Millen's Celica; anything is possible. It will take you a lot of money though...I doubt you'd do it n/a or nitrous alone...good luck.
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Lucky_317
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Lucky_317 Feb 22, 6:48am - #406085 

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Fontana, CA
Originally Posted by celimangts17
well i ran a 17.3 stock on my car, ran a 17.7 this last time but i added a heavy ass system and intake and exhaust. but my r/t improved ALOT! i had a .50 r/t stock and a .10 with intake and exhaust. what i do is just 2k brake drop off the line. you can beat some cars from a dead stop. i beat an inline 6 truck from a stop at the strip and i could just barely hang with a 63 vette. i dont think ur gonna get much power from the auto to be competitive. i think competitive for you and me would be down to the 15s or 16s. thats just about as good as we are gonna get. if you want lower than that, plan on what i want to do...a 6spd swap. then you can run lower if you use f/i with it. but for now you can still do really good. just go to the track and enter into a time trial competition like i did and you will do awesome. i won a plaque because i was able to be consistent with my times. and the auto tranny is great for consistency. may be a slow time ur consistent with but you will run the same thing or close if you just put the car in drive and take overdrive off and 2k brake drop off the line. just dont expect lower than a 16 with the auto tranny, i know it sucks to hear but its the truth.

^^ you need to learn a lot about racing before you go posting more bad information.
check the racing forum cause there is a few really helpful stickies we made.

R/T - stands for reaction time. it measures how long it takes you to go once the green light hits. (perfect light will either be .000 or .500 depending on the track and the style system they use)
it has NO affect what so ever on your ET.

ET - stands for Elapsed Time. this measures how long it takes for you to travel the length of the track.

Thanx for playing and better luck next time.


Originally Posted by XxMerlinxX
LOL, I keep having to repeat myself. Yes, the auto doesn't have the ability to rev high and drop like a manual. That's why I want to up the stall speed of the torque converter, so I can do that very thing! Nobody has done any of this, so we just don't know.

Bottom line, I think that the auto can be a lot faster than what it is now, that's all. I'm not saying I'll be able to do 13's or even low 14's. Maybe with more mods, but we'll just have to see how it goes.


80% of the people posting in this thread dont understand wtf you are talking about which is why you're getting some of these opinions lol

as long as you are aware of what you are getting into I think it will be a cool project. you're going to spend a lot of money and still be considered really slow.

not landing lift alone is going to cost you .4 seconds on the 1/4. you'll want to rev higher and find a way to quicken the shifts. a member on the other board I believe was talkin about doing this. never heard anything after the thgouth poped up so I doubt he went through with it.

good luck. make sure you keep us updated.

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XxMerlinxX
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XxMerlinxX Feb 22, 6:52am - #406086 
2000 Silver Toyota Celica
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Thanks lucky. I'll probably hook up the TBKO kit for the quicker shifts. There's a toyota mechanic that works in florence that says he knows someone that can break Toyota's codes on the ecu so we can rev higher. I think that's a long shot, but I'm gonna follow up on it anyway. I haven't looked into headers yet, I think I might start looking at those next.

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Lucky_317
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Lucky_317 Feb 22, 6:55am - #406087 

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Fontana, CA
if they cracked toyotas code they'd be super rich so dont count on that.

JET sux despite peoples claims. I think e-manage may work for you? if not perhaps unichip. C2gas should be able to answer you if you pm him about the emanage. I have no direct experience with it.

then you'll have some tuning abilities and get the higher limiter.

you should also get new cams, valves and valve springs. this will let you rev REALLY high. that'll fix your landing in lift problem and get you some decent times for an auto.

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XxMerlinxX
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XxMerlinxX Feb 22, 6:58am - #406088 
2000 Silver Toyota Celica
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I've been semi-following the cams post, and it just doesn't look promising to me. Aren't the gains from those minimal?

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Lucky_317
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Lucky_317 Feb 22, 7:08am - #406089 

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Fontana, CA
^^ depends on what you're looking for. peak power will be "minimal" sicne everyone seems to think 10 whp wont satisfy them.

I expect down low to raise by 20 - 25 whp across the rest of the power band.

but lemmings only wanna hear peak power unfortunately.

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XxMerlinxX
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XxMerlinxX Feb 22, 7:10am - #406090 
2000 Silver Toyota Celica
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That's not bad, I don't know if I'll be able to afford them if they're going to be over $700 or so. Down low is really where I'm lacking though, so it may be something to save up for.

Are they going to look into headers as well?

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Lucky_317
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Lucky_317 Feb 22, 2:41pm - #406091 

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^^ no, but the cams aer made to increase the downlow power.

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celicadragon
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celicadragon Feb 22, 3:47pm - #406092 

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Pittsburgh, PA
are there gts cams out now?!~

respect the gt-s
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cr4sh
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cr4sh Feb 22, 4:17pm - #406093 
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manual rev up+ drop clutch = N->D in auto

stop me when you can prove the manual has more power than automatic or sporttronic shift...
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Lasherccl
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Lasherccl Feb 22, 6:29pm - #406094 

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2001 Toyota Celica

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Arizona
Originally Posted by cr4sh
manual rev up+ drop clutch = N->D in auto

stop me when you can prove the manual has more power than automatic or sporttronic shift...


ok you want someone to prove it? just put yourself up against a 6 speed gts and your auto gts and see who wins.

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celimangts17
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celimangts17 Feb 22, 6:36pm - #406095 

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New Orleans, LA
Originally Posted by cr4sh
manual rev up+ drop clutch = N->D in auto

stop me when you can prove the manual has more power than automatic or sporttronic shift...

NEVER neutral bomb ur car, its so bad on the tranny!

Laissez les bons temps rouler
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Johnsgt
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Johnsgt Feb 22, 6:43pm - #406096 
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It's called drivetrain loss. Its common knowledge that autos lose more power to the wheels. For celicas it's about 22% versus the 15% the manual loses. Therefore the manual stock vs auto stock, the manual will have more whp.
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ct
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ct Feb 22, 6:44pm - #406097 

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Originally Posted by Johnsgt
It's called drivetrain loss. Its common knowledge that autos lose more power to the wheels. For celicas it's about 22% versus the 15% the manual loses. Therefore the manual stock vs auto stock, the manual will have more whp.


why do you keep trying...they're never going to get it... rofl

Originally posted by SKOOF:
yoru such a clown, i wish you lived in nyc, i would love to just give you the beating that youve probably never gotten in your life.
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celimangts17
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celimangts17 Feb 22, 6:49pm - #406098 

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Originally Posted by Lucky_317

R/T - stands for reaction time. it measures how long it takes you to go once the green light hits. (perfect light will either be .000 or .500 depending on the track and the style system they use)
it has NO affect what so ever on your ET.

ET - stands for Elapsed Time. this measures how long it takes for you to travel the length of the track.

Thanx for playing and better luck next time.


well i did know all this before. .000 is perfect light at the track i go to. so if i went from a .5 to a .1 that means i did gain something. the reason i was slower at the track this past time was because like i said i have a heavy system that i added after i ran the track stock. i am not lookin to have my car drag full time nor to be competitive while i have the auto tranny. i just do it cause its fun. and lucky, i know ur the authority around here on drag racing, i havent been under a rock for the past 2 years on this site, but i was just giving my opinion. i would like to see how much a better torque converter will make a difference. also i dont know merlin if you have an authentic veilside or not but i think, and im not sure on this, but i think the authentic weighs more than the fiberglass and if ur running 16s that may be why i am runnin 17s. also it depends on if you took ur back seat out and the spare. well if you do go ahead and run that level 10 torque converter and n2o let all us auto gts know, cause a lot of us are very interested to see how much of a difference it makes thumbsup

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celicadragon
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celicadragon Feb 22, 8:03pm - #406099 

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i have been interested in that tc for a while too but thats a lot of money for a non dynoed item, after i see gains from it i would be willing to purchase it, screw luxury

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Lucky_317
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Lucky_317 Feb 22, 9:09pm - #406100 

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Fontana, CA
^^ a torque convertor with a higher stall count is so that you can launch the car from a higher rpm. not to gain HP.

celiman GTS. you're still confused. going from .5 - .1 means you reacted faster to the light. you could hop in a toyota echo pulling a dodge ram and it could pull off a .000 light. power doesnt mean anything to R/T.

when you stage and those lights light up, you're sitting on a sensor. when you aer no longer on that sensor it counts how long it took from the time green lit to the time you left the sensor. your mods and your sytem had nothing to do with the change.

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Lucky_317
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Lucky_317 Feb 22, 9:11pm - #406101 

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Originally Posted by cr4sh
manual rev up+ drop clutch = N->D in auto

stop me when you can prove the manual has more power than automatic or sporttronic shift...


you are just determined to be the rebel around here arent you.

thats a great way to destroy your tranny. and NO, it doesnt make you go any faster.

Best 60' 1.959 best 1/4 - 13.7 @ 101mph
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hombredelassrtas
CF Connoisseur
hombredelassrtas Feb 22, 9:27pm - #406102 

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2004 Toyota Celica

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Gainesville, FL
lucky to the rescue. i listen to your advice before others smile

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celicatuner
Member
celicatuner Feb 22, 9:42pm - #406103 
2002 silver Toyota Celica
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2002 Toyota Celica

Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 319
amherst, ma
what about a transbreak? they use them in auto drag racing.. it disconnects the tranny so you can rev high and then as soon as you release the button you've got all your power from 6k or something..
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XxMerlinxX
Senior Member
XxMerlinxX Feb 22, 9:58pm - #406104 
2000 Silver Toyota Celica
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2000 Toyota Celica

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Posts: 673
Hartsville/Greenwood, SC
Originally Posted by celicatuner
what about a transbreak? they use them in auto drag racing.. it disconnects the tranny so you can rev high and then as soon as you release the button you've got all your power from 6k or something..


So you're saying it takes the stress off of the tranny? Cause if the it just lets it kick in at 6 grand, it just sounds like nuetral dropping. I've never heard of'em though, enlighten me please.

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celimangts17
Senior Member
celimangts17 Feb 22, 10:05pm - #406105 

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2003 Toyota Celica

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Posts: 464
New Orleans, LA
yea i have always wondered about those "unlock" trannies, those could help a lot too. if ur an auto and have a turbo it would allow you to spool the turbo up during the lauch, that would definately help alot

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SLVCELI
Specialist
SLVCELI Feb 23, 12:16am - #406106 
2002 Liquid Silver Metall Toyota Celica GT
Specialist
2002 Toyota Celica GT

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,304
West Chester, Ohio
On my auto gt I lost about 23 percent due to drivetrain loss so they are correct.

Originally Posted by Johnsgt
Yeah, so even with a 75 shot and a higher stall speed, thats still mid-high 15s. Like i said without a grip of money you wont even get into 14s.


A automatic matrix xr with exhaust, Intake and 50 shot does a 15.083 quarter. If he runs a 75 shot with bolt ons I would say 14's is def. possible.
The automatic xr, stock, runs 18.0 so if he runs 16.9 stock, its very likely. Of coarse it is a lot harder to go from a 15 to a 14 than from a 18 to a 17 but still.

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