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RedCeli
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RedCeli Feb 20, 12:24am - #404307 
2001 Silver Toyota Celica
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VVTL-i V.S. V-TEC

Why is it that it takes lift longer than Honda's v-tec to kick in?? any ideas or comments?? This has always intrigued me... rice

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Lucky_317
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Lucky_317 Feb 20, 12:48am - #404308 

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cam profiles.

Its not that it takes longer so much. it's set where it'll make the most power with our stock cam profiles.

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Clos
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Clos Feb 20, 12:50am - #404309 
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because there 2 different engines. and wat mike just said ^^^^
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vcel523
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vcel523 Feb 20, 12:56am - #404310 

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if you get race cams, does lift then engage earlier, or do you have to tune the ECU?
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Spencer
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Spencer Feb 20, 12:59am - #404311 

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two of my friends have Honda Si's and they say my auto gts hits "lift" much harder than their vtec's do. They also raced a 6-speed gts and thought he had nitrous or cams or something internal that i couldnt see when he popped the Hood. They made me check to see if he had any mods he hadnt said cause he beat them so bad...he was just an excellent driver, had no back seat, and only a drop-in k&n filter thumbsup

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RedCeli
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RedCeli Feb 20, 3:06am - #404312 
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Well would changing my cams make me hit lift earlier?? or do i have to tune the ECU?

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Clos
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Clos Feb 20, 3:22am - #404313 
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actually yes you can with power fc, but then again there wont be any point because i belive you wont produce any power below the 62k, and sence tpr is out with cams, i remember mike saying lift would probably be raised up to 7k sence the low rpm lobes are tuned higher than stock. so on our engines there is no point on hitting lift earlyer than it allready is.
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Lucky_317
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Lucky_317 Feb 20, 4:16am - #404314 

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it's simply a guess still, but I'm anticipating raising lift with the profiles on the tpr cams.

what you need to realize is that you don't have to rely on "lift" to make all the power.


to put lift in it's optimal place heres what you do...

raise lift really high like 7500 rpms and tune the car to make the most power possible.

then lower lift really low like 5000 rpms and tune the car to make the most power possible.


then what you'll have is a funny shaped X where ever the 2 points meet is where lift should be. no point in having it any other place.

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RedCeli
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RedCeli Feb 20, 5:14am - #404315 
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Smart thinking, thanks for the feedback... thumbsup

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Zero Feb 20, 9:31am - #404316 

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is i-Vtec more comparable to VVTL-i? and VVT-i comparable to Vtec?

i thought Honda added the "i" and other performance upgrades to rival with toyota's VVTL-i confused

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widebodyboy
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widebodyboy Feb 20, 10:22am - #404317 
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vtec kicks in before vvtli does vtec kicks in at 5400rpm and vvtli kicks in at 6200rpm... vtec is activated by a oil pressure that pushes a pin up that activates the 3rd lob and it opens the exhaust side valves longer and its on the exhaust side cam... vvtli is on the in take side cam and the whole cam advances... vvtli is like a lot like ivtec... vvti is just a little changing in timiming to make a little more power thumbsup yea i have a lot of honda freinds and i worked a lot on honda and toyota motors
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GTS_Rosh
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GTS_Rosh Feb 21, 12:16am - #404318 

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VVTL-i kicks in harder then VTEC, some owners of Preludes / Civic Si / GSR say they can't even tell when it comes on, just the sound gets louder. Although you gotta be pretty dumb not to know, the transition is very mild. But VVTL-i is really strong and you can feel the rush. Its even a tad better then on the Integra Type-R (I read this on the www.clubrsx.com). i-VTEC is like VVTL-i, but you can't feel i-VTEC, the transition is too smooth. Many guys on clubrsx complain that they can't feel shit, but certainly the power is there. In the end VVTL-i still is superior as it varies timing & cam phasing on both Intake & exhaust valves (I-VTEC only does it on the Intake valves).
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Lucky_317
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Lucky_317 Feb 21, 12:45am - #404319 

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rolleyes ok here we go again. I'm gonna have to quote you guys to to fix this.

Originally Posted by widebodyboy
vtec kicks in before vvtli does vtec kicks in at 5400rpm and vvtli kicks in at 6200rpm... vtec is activated by a oil pressure that pushes a pin up that activates the 3rd lob and it opens the exhaust side valves longer and its on the exhaust side cam... vvtli is on the in take side cam and the whole cam advances... vvtli is like a lot like ivtec... vvti is just a little changing in timiming to make a little more power thumbsup yea i have a lot of honda freinds and i worked a lot on honda and toyota motors


"lift" is activated by oilpressure that pushes a pin in place also.

VVTI is what makes the timing changes and rotates the cam only on the Intake side.

and yes, Ivtec and VVTLI are practically the same thing.

Originally Posted by GTS_Rosh
VVTL-i kicks in harder then VTEC, some owners of Preludes / Civic Si / GSR say they can't even tell when it comes on, just the sound gets louder. Although you gotta be pretty dumb not to know, the transition is very mild. But VVTL-i is really strong and you can feel the rush. Its even a tad better then on the Integra Type-R (I read this on the www.clubrsx.com). i-VTEC is like VVTL-i, but you can't feel i-VTEC, the transition is too smooth. Many guys on clubrsx complain that they can't feel shit, but certainly the power is there. In the end VVTL-i still is superior as it varies timing & cam phasing on both intake & exhaust valves (I-VTEC only does it on the intake valves).


the reason lift is more noticeable is because we have such crappy low end performance. in a car like mine and most anybody in a gts running the power fc, you wont feel lift kick in. this means it's actually less efficient then the way the rsx has it. not the other way around like you're trying to make it sound.

also you have your facts backwards.

celica = variable Intake side only

RSX = both Intake and exhaust side are variable.

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FFdrifter
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FFdrifter Feb 21, 1:08am - #404320 

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Originally Posted by GTS_Rosh
VVTL-i kicks in harder then VTEC, some owners of Preludes / Civic Si / GSR say they can't even tell when it comes on, just the sound gets louder. Although you gotta be pretty dumb not to know, the transition is very mild. But VVTL-i is really strong and you can feel the rush. Its even a tad better then on the Integra Type-R (I read this on the www.clubrsx.com). i-VTEC is like VVTL-i, but you can't feel i-VTEC, the transition is too smooth. Many guys on clubrsx complain that they can't feel shit, but certainly the power is there. In the end VVTL-i still is superior as it varies timing & cam phasing on both Intake & exhaust valves (I-VTEC only does it on the Intake valves).

the reason lift is more noticeable is because we have such crappy low end performance. in a car like mine and most anybody in a gts running the power fc, you wont feel lift kick in. this means it's actually less efficient then the way the rsx has it. not the other way around like you're trying to make it sound.

also you have your facts backwards.

celica = variable Intake side only

RSX = both intake and exhaust side are variable.


i thought VVT-i was only variable on the Intake side and VVTL-i was variable on both Intake and exhaust valves?
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JettaMan
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JettaMan Feb 21, 1:30am - #404321 

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i have personally driven two V-Tec cars (my mothers Honda 6cyl. accord and a person i know Integra) and then driven my friends GTS, the hit into lift is much harder and you feel it much more than any V-TEC i have ever driven... the power surge just is not there

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blitzceli
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blitzceli Feb 21, 2:54am - #404322 

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TO REACAP vvtl-i will own a stock v-tec every time

"friends dont let friends drive stock"
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Rave669
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Rave669 Feb 21, 3:15am - #404323 

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Originally Posted by Lucky_317

the reason lift is more noticeable is because we have such crappy low end performance. in a car like mine and most anybody in a gts running the power fc, you wont feel lift kick in. this means it's actually less efficient then the way the rsx has it. not the other way around like you're trying to make it sound.


This is true, As I've added mods to increase midrange/top-end performance, I have noticed that the transition to the high-cam is less noticable then when it was stock. Even just an Intake/exhaust combo will do this. I like the fact that it's less noticable, because it just makes the powerband more comfortable and linear.

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Lucky_317
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Lucky_317 Feb 21, 4:43am - #404324 

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Originally Posted by FFdrifter
i thought VVT-i was only variable on the intake side and VVTL-i was variable on both intake and exhaust valves?


read my post again. you're not correct.

Originally Posted by JettaMan
i have personally driven two V-Tec cars (my mothers Honda 6cyl. accord and a person i know Integra) and then driven my friends GTS, the hit into lift is much harder and you feel it much more than any V-TEC i have ever driven... the power surge just is not there


it's not a power surge. it's a lack of power before lift.

Originally Posted by blitzceli
TO REACAP vvtl-i will own a stock v-tec every time


SSSSSSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHH we're trying to post facts here. please refrain from posting on things for which you are not properly informed.

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ct
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ct Feb 21, 4:45am - #404325 

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Originally Posted by Lucky_317
[quote=FFdrifter]SSSSSSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHH we're trying to post facts here. please refrain from posting on things for which you are not properly informed.


rofl...that was harsh

Originally posted by SKOOF:
yoru such a clown, i wish you lived in nyc, i would love to just give you the beating that youve probably never gotten in your life.
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Poisoner
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Poisoner Feb 21, 4:59am - #404326 
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Quote:

celica = variable intake side only


Well on the everything celica tech page it says that the 2zz has two cam profiles for both exhaust and Intake
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Lucky_317
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Lucky_317 Feb 21, 6:34am - #404327 

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^^ your fate is in a jury of your peers.

I'll post a response when them come to a verdict. (this will make sense soon)

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Clos
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Clos Feb 21, 6:43am - #404328 
2000 Spectra Blue Toyota Celica
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ivtec will always own vvtli.
y do you think we have to change lift bolts, clean the lift sensor shit and do all this other shit to keep lift strong, the fact is honda created the ivtec, and toyotas vvtli is toyotas vertion of a ivtec.
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Lucky_317
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Lucky_317 Feb 21, 6:44am - #404329 

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Quote:

celica = variable intake side only


Well on the everything celica tech page it says that the 2zz has two cam profiles for both exhaust and Intake [/quote]

ok they decided I should be nice so here goes...

the cam profiles have nothing to do with this conversation.

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Lucky_317
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Lucky_317 Feb 21, 6:46am - #404330 

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Originally Posted by Clos
ivtec will always own vvtli.


thats not true either. they are the same damn thing done 2 different ways.

it's like asking which weighs more, a ton of feathers or a ton of bricks.

in the end it's still a ton wink

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RedCeli
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RedCeli Feb 21, 4:34pm - #404331 
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Hmmm...interesting...still would eat a Honda for breakfast though...it's not the car...its the driver! eek

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GTS_Rosh
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GTS_Rosh Feb 21, 6:16pm - #404332 

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Originally Posted by Lucky_317

[quote=GTS_Rosh]
also you have your facts backwards.

celica = variable Intake side only

RSX = both intake and exhaust side are variable.


Sorry Lucky, but I found out your RIGHT. The celica only varies timing/phasing on the Intake valves only. Only I-VTEC in the K20A found on the base RSX & Civic Si models do exactly the same thing. Its only on the K20C in the Type-S that it actually works on Intake & exhaust.
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Lucky_317
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Lucky_317 Feb 21, 7:07pm - #404333 

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isnt the type S a K20A2 not K20C

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Illusive
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Illusive Feb 21, 7:26pm - #404334 
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Quote:
Originally posted by widebodyboy:
vtec is activated by a oil pressure that pushes a pin up that activates the 3rd lob and it opens the exhaust side valves longer and its on the exhaust side cam

whoa, 3 cam profiles we must all bow to vtec
spineyes

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slick00gts
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slick00gts Feb 21, 7:31pm - #404335 
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never say that ^^^^^ again, toyota will never bow down. especially to honda
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GTS_Rosh
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GTS_Rosh Feb 21, 7:47pm - #404336 

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Originally Posted by Lucky_317
isnt the type S a K20A2 not K20C


According to this link its a K20C.

http://www.streettuners.com/curve/engine/engine_specs.html
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Illusive
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Illusive Feb 21, 10:45pm - #404337 
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Originally Posted by slick00gts
never say that ^^^^^ again, toyota will never bow down. especially to honda


i hope you realize how utterly rediculous a car would be to have 3 cam lobes. for each cylinder. the valvetrain weight alone would be horrendous.

it was a joke and i was poking fun at him for saying 3 cam lobes when in fact no honda has ever been made with 3 cam lobes.

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Clos
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Clos Feb 21, 11:12pm - #404338 
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the rsx-s has 3 cam lobes
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GTS_Rosh
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GTS_Rosh Feb 21, 11:30pm - #404339 

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Some places called the Type-S engine the K20A2, so I dunno what the hell is the right answer. spineyes

Anyways, the Type-S does have 3 cam lobes!

Here is a good read on VTEC & I-VTEC:

http://www.superhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=124797
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Lucky_317
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Lucky_317 Feb 22, 12:06am - #404340 

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it's the K20A2 but just in case you dont believe me I posted on clubrsx.com

I already know I'm right but so that you guys dont have to take my word read this thread as people reply...

http://forums.clubrsx.com/showthread.php?t=240860

and yes, the type S actually has 3 lobes.

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RedCeli
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RedCeli Feb 22, 12:39am - #404341 
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kraziness spineyes

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Illusive
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Illusive Feb 22, 3:45am - #404342 
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Originally Posted by GTS_Rosh
Some places called the Type-S engine the K20A2, so I dunno what the hell is the right answer. spineyes

Anyways, the Type-S does have 3 cam lobes!

Here is a good read on VTEC & I-VTEC:

http://www.superhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=124797


bah 3 lobes 2 profiles, the 3rd lobe is just there to stabilize the cam.

2 identcal low profile lobes, and one high lift lobe. = 2 profiles. I was referring to something that had 3 different lobes with 3 different profiles. i digress...

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Lucky_317 Feb 22, 7:02am - #404343 

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don't worry, I won't tell anyone you made a boo boo rofl

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