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VVTL engine - kicking the power in earlier #402938 Feb 17, 6:22pm Feb 17, 6:22pm
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VVTL engine - kicking the power in earlier
Hi everyone,

I just got my Celica a few months ago and am really fustrated at how the power only comes in at 6000RPM+ My mechanic got his computer to make it so the power kicks in a 0RPM but we switched it back because in reality its only logical for everyday driving whent he power kicks in later. Does anyone know how to change it so the power can kick in at say 3000RPMs? and what is activating the power to start?

I really appreactiate anyones knowledge smile

Re: VVTL engine - kicking the power in earlier [Re: grozzy] #402939 Feb 17, 6:26pm Feb 17, 6:26pm
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jersey
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dude dont do it you will lose wayyyyyyy 2 much power...other people who know more about it then me will tell you exactly why and stuff i just know not to do it


2004 AUTO GT-S............

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Re: VVTL engine - kicking the power in earlier [Re: drivethru1986] #402940 Feb 17, 6:33pm Feb 17, 6:33pm
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JettaMan
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um... if you have a manuel and the then you should be able to land lift every gear, and the only time you should bring it to 6000RPM is when racing... so whats the problem again because you kinda made me confused spineyes


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Re: VVTL engine - kicking the power in earlier [Re: JettaMan] #402941 Feb 17, 6:38pm Feb 17, 6:38pm
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jersey
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^^^ ya but correct me if im wrong but i think what hes saying is that he wants lift at like 3000 RPM instead of 6000...that would = no power or even dead car...i think i could be wrong...


2004 AUTO GT-S............

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Re: VVTL engine - kicking the power in earlier [Re: drivethru1986] #402942 Feb 17, 6:49pm Feb 17, 6:49pm
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yea i have herd same stuff as carl. Apprently its not a good thing to lower lift. Prob ruin your engine.

Re: VVTL engine - kicking the power in earlier [Re: hombredelassrtas] #402943 Feb 17, 7:06pm Feb 17, 7:06pm
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Just stay in lift man...u shouldn't have a problem...just redline it a bit and shift quickly... spineyes


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Re: VVTL engine - kicking the power in earlier [Re: RedCeli] #402944 Feb 17, 7:37pm Feb 17, 7:37pm
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Thanks for the feedback so far but I will just clarify what I mean. My car is the 2000 Celica ZR (manual) and I find that once you get to about 6000RPM the power (lift kicks in). Now while I agree that having it kick in straight away will ruin your engine I really would like it to come in at 4000RPMS because I find that if I want everyday driving I wont get past that mark but if I want to push it I want the power to kick in earlier for improved performance. My mechanic said he can do this to a Honda but is unsure how to do this for a Celica. Any ideas?

Re: VVTL engine - kicking the power in earlier [Re: grozzy] #402945 Feb 17, 7:52pm Feb 17, 7:52pm
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I think it's electronic on a Honda, but it's mechanical on a celica. Monkeywrench Racing did this and found that you actually lost power.

Re: VVTL engine - kicking the power in earlier [Re: robare99] #402946 Feb 17, 8:04pm Feb 17, 8:04pm
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jersey
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ya you would def. lose a shitload of power...not worth it..i know what you mean tho...


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Re: VVTL engine - kicking the power in earlier [Re: robare99] #402947 Feb 17, 8:39pm Feb 17, 8:39pm
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it's gotta be electronic cause you can adjust it with pfc.. but it's different so dunno if your mechanic can do it on our car.. like emanage can adjust vtec shift points, but cannot adjust vvtl lift. also you probably won't get much power before 6k even if you adjusted the lift point. because it's basically like being able to swop out your cams at the push of a button.. some cams have better profiles for low rpms and some have better profiles for high rpms.. the whole point of the shift is to have good low rpm cam profile and then have a good high rpm cam profile in one car. if you lower the lift engagement too much you'll be using a high rpm cam in low rpms which will make you have less power at lower rpms than you already do. and if you've got a 6sp close ratio manual gear box you should have to worry about dropping out of lift if you shift at redline..

Re: VVTL engine - kicking the power in earlier [Re: celicatuner] #402948 Feb 17, 9:12pm Feb 17, 9:12pm
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ppl, just lowering your vvtli will not make for a quicker car
at the dyno shop i go to, we lowered it to 5700 and had to mess with the valve angles so we didnt loss to much power at the cam change over
in the end we lost about 5whp at change over but still made the car faster, any lower would have been a DRAMATIC loss in power

if you want to lower your lift engagement your gonna need a power fc with commander at least
then your gonna need some dyno testing to see your results
again lowering your lift engagement to 3000 or 0 rpms will not make you fast at all.


8600 rpm killer!!!!!!
Re: VVTL engine - kicking the power in earlier [Re: jav8or] #402949 Feb 17, 11:22pm Feb 17, 11:22pm
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let me just post the facts. too much wierd info for me to quote so I'll make it simple.

1) he will NOT be able to change the lift crossover point without you switching over to the apexi power fc. the stock ecu can't be changed.

2) we do not drive a honda and therefore honda rules do not apply. you can't simply turn on lift whenever you want and make power.

3) lowering lift will NOT blow your motor.

4) you don't want lift any sooner then 6,000 rpms. any sooner and there's no benefit. the further down you go, the more you will lose power. this has been dyno proven time and time again. our cams our simply not designed to work that way.

the only way to get more power before lift is to get some custom cams made, and have the car properly tuned.


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Re: VVTL engine - kicking the power in earlier [Re: Lucky_317] #402950 Feb 18, 4:05am Feb 18, 4:05am
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lucky you know too damn much for one single person.. lol. hows the headers and cams etc etc etc coming along?


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Re: VVTL engine - kicking the power in earlier [Re: 2kanchoo] #402951 Feb 18, 9:07am Feb 18, 9:07am
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thanks lucky for clearing that up thumbsup


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Re: VVTL engine - kicking the power in earlier [Re: drivethru1986] #402952 Feb 18, 3:11pm Feb 18, 3:11pm
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I know lots of smart people that keep me informed.

the headers arent in the works yet, the cams are on hold becuase I bent a valve at the last autox I went to, tried to find another volunteer but nobody stepped up. my car is back up as of today, so I'll start working on the cams again next week. the exhaust is on schedule and will ship next week like they are supposed to. No word back rom the Intake place yet, but they are supposed to be done next week as well.


Best 60' 1.959 best 1/4 - 13.7 @ 101mph
Re: VVTL engine - kicking the power in earlier [Re: Lucky_317] #402953 Feb 18, 3:33pm Feb 18, 3:33pm
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He has a Celica ZR in Australia that's rated at 140kW HP. That's about 187hp or so. What's different about it that it has more HP then the USDM version?

Re: VVTL engine - kicking the power in earlier [Re: GTS_Rosh] #402954 Feb 18, 5:21pm Feb 18, 5:21pm
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Zero
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Originally Posted by GTS_Rosh
He has a Celica ZR in Australia that's rated at 140kW HP. That's about 187hp or so. What's different about it that it has more HP then the USDM version?


its probably because here in the States, we have strict(er) emission laws.


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Re: VVTL engine - kicking the power in earlier [Re: Zero] #402955 Feb 18, 5:26pm Feb 18, 5:26pm
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Oh yeah that's true, its probably the CAT that does it.

Re: VVTL engine - kicking the power in earlier [Re: GTS_Rosh] #402956 Feb 18, 5:36pm Feb 18, 5:36pm
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If lowering the lift point lowers horsepower, will having a later lift point (6500rpm) raise horsepower? will it allow for a later redline also?

Re: VVTL engine - kicking the power in earlier [Re: gtspaul2zzge] #402957 Feb 18, 7:05pm Feb 18, 7:05pm
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i don't think it'll increase ur hp or allow for a higher redline.
just get the apexi power fc, i have heard much good tihing about it

Re: VVTL engine - kicking the power in earlier [Re: vietnamese2004] #402958 Feb 18, 9:07pm Feb 18, 9:07pm
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no, raising lift doesnt give you more hp. it would take a lot of explaining that I'm not going to do to explain why.

lowering lift too much makes you lose power. raising it means you're wasting hp. in my experience, 6,000 rpms is the optimal point for stock cams.


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Re: VVTL engine - kicking the power in earlier [Re: Lucky_317] #402959 Feb 19, 1:23am Feb 19, 1:23am
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Why can't people understand that our cars engauge life at 6000 or 6200 rpms and its like that because its just about the best place for it to kick in the way our cars are tuned.

Re: VVTL engine - kicking the power in earlier [Re: Poisoner] #402960 Feb 19, 1:51am Feb 19, 1:51am
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it actually has more to do with the cam profiles.

it's simply lack of knowledge.


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Re: VVTL engine - kicking the power in earlier [Re: Lucky_317] #402961 Feb 19, 6:08pm Feb 19, 6:08pm
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1-2-3 shift and you'll be fine


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Re: VVTL engine - kicking the power in earlier [Re: Spencer] #402962 Feb 19, 9:20pm Feb 19, 9:20pm
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since I had to type this for another thread heres how to find your optimum lift point...

to put lift in it's optimal place heres what you do...

raise lift really high like 7500 rpms and tune the car to make the most power possible.

then lower lift really low like 5000 rpms and tune the car to make the most power possible.


then what you'll have is a funny shaped X where ever the 2 points meet is where lift should be. no point in having it any other place.


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Re: VVTL engine - kicking the power in earlier [Re: Lucky_317] #402963 Feb 20, 3:34pm Feb 20, 3:34pm
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Thanks for your help everyone. Needless to say I wont be tampering with the lift after the convo I have read. Nice observation as well that I have an Australian ZR. Its 6 speed which I noted is different from the US which has 5 speed and takes only premium unleaded where as I think the US take normal unleaded gas.

Re: VVTL engine - kicking the power in earlier [Re: grozzy] #402964 Feb 20, 5:47pm Feb 20, 5:47pm
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Originally Posted by grozzy
Thanks for your help everyone. Needless to say I wont be tampering with the lift after the convo I have read. Nice observation as well that I have an Australian ZR. Its 6 speed which I noted is different from the US which has 5 speed and takes only premium unleaded where as I think the US take normal unleaded gas.


are you saying the ZR is equivalent to our GT model???? cause if so then you don't even have lift to begin with.

the GTS here uses the 6spd as well. either way, your facts are off.


Best 60' 1.959 best 1/4 - 13.7 @ 101mph
Re: VVTL engine - kicking the power in earlier [Re: Lucky_317] #402965 Feb 20, 7:36pm Feb 20, 7:36pm
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I'm not sure the comparison between the US and Australia models are. All i know is that at about 6000RPMs the car 'takes off' and you can physically feel the acceleration. I'm sure this is the 'lift' everyone refers to.

Re: VVTL engine - kicking the power in earlier [Re: grozzy] #402966 Feb 20, 8:28pm Feb 20, 8:28pm
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Yes, that would be a 2ZZ engine. But your facts are a bit messed up. the US Spec Celica GTS has a 2ZZ engine, and a six-speed gearbox, unless it's an automatic tranny, in which case, it has a 4-speed tiptronic setup.

Either form of the GTS requires premium fuel, due to the fact that the 2ZZ-GE engine in our cars has a high compression (11.5:1)/short stroke configuration.

So, you are in fact describing the GTS specs, not GT specs. Therefore the Austrailian ZR model is equivalent to the US spec GTS.

GT's come with the 5-speed gearbox and a 1ZZ-FE engine.


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