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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 148
BlueGTS
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BlueGTS Dec 13, 8:53pm - #350387 

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2000 Toyota Celica

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 148
Virginia, US
Timing issues?

I was wondering, if the timing is off will that prevent you from entering lift?
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ExNihilo
Cold Warrior
ExNihilo Dec 14, 4:27am - #350388 
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2004 Toyota Celica GTS

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 777
Tempe, AZ
That's a good question. Sorry I can't tell you for sure, but I don't think bad valve timing would prevent lift. Lift kicking in is (I believe) dependent only on RPM (and engine temperature). However, if the valve timing is off, the engine may not generate enough power to reach the needed RPM.

You might be able to just rev it in neutral to 6K or so. Without any load, it should then enter lift. Lift is inhibited if the engine temperature is below a certain level, but I haven't heard its inhibited if you're not in gear. Could be wrong of course. Now, whether you'd be able to TELL it was in lift is a whole new question. Don't know about that. Anybody?

Does this have to do with the engine work you're having done? How goes the battle, anyway?

300,000 KM/Sec. Its not just a good idea, its the law.
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BlueGTS
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BlueGTS Dec 14, 6:29pm - #350389 

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2000 Toyota Celica

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 148
Virginia, US
well, to tell you the truth, i went to another shop to get it fixed, and they said that the timing was way off, and something like the chain was off like 2-3 links. It wont go into lift at all, so hopefully that when this guys works on it, it will be fixed. its only about 700 more bucks. So, as soon as i get it fixed, i am taking all the reciepts to court and getting a warrant for the punk who claimed he could re-build it.

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BlueGTS
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BlueGTS Dec 14, 6:31pm - #350390 

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2000 Toyota Celica

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Virginia, US
i should have just waited for monkeywrench to come out with the 2zz engine package, and sent my engine there

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ExNihilo
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ExNihilo Dec 14, 10:37pm - #350391 
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2004 Toyota Celica GTS

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Posts: 777
Tempe, AZ
So the timing chain (cam alignment) was screwed up by the 1st shop, as well as all the other problems?

300,000 KM/Sec. Its not just a good idea, its the law.
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BlueGTS
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BlueGTS Dec 15, 1:58pm - #350392 

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2000 Toyota Celica

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 148
Virginia, US
ya, it was all messed up angry. The new shop where its at i completly trust and i know they arent going to screw around. My pops has known the guy since he was in high school, and he always treats us awesome. he is definatly good with his word. thumbsup

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BlueGTS
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BlueGTS Dec 15, 2:00pm - #350393 

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2000 Toyota Celica

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Virginia, US
You think that has something to do with lift? I would, since its the cams.

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ExNihilo
Cold Warrior
ExNihilo Dec 15, 4:22pm - #350394 
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2004 Toyota Celica GTS

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Posts: 777
Tempe, AZ
The chain being off by 3 links would cause all sorts of problems. I don't know enough about the engine to be able to say it would definitely prevent it from entering lift, but at the very least it might rob so much power you would be unable to reach the magic 6K rpm to enter lift. Here's an ecelica link for some engine info:

https://www.celicahobby.com/tech/engine.html

Note the "valve opening" and "valve closing" angle ranges for both normal and "high speed" Intake valves. The variable valve timing arrangement picks a setting somewhere in the range given to optimize power output vs. fuel economy (higher rpms = less economy and more power). With the cam alignment off, the engine isn't selecting the correct setting anymore, i.e. the actual setting used is biased by whatever angle difference the 3-link error introduced. Its guaranteed that HP output would be way down as a result. It could easily cut off lift from kicking in, but I just can't tell you for sure that's what happens.

Maybe someone thats worked on GTS engines can help. Anybody?

300,000 KM/Sec. Its not just a good idea, its the law.
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BlueGTS
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BlueGTS Dec 15, 4:32pm - #350395 

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2000 Toyota Celica

Joined: Jul 2004
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Virginia, US
Well, i just hope thats the problem, cause it would make plenty sense. Thinking if the cam alignment is off, at 6K when the changeover is supposed to occur, it wont act right and mess all up, cause when i tried to go into lift for the first time,(and i only tried once) it acted like it hit a wall and stopped dead at the 6K mark. I will just have to wait until my pops brings the car to my job after i get off this afternoon to really see the change it made. I mean, it felt so sluggish when i recieved it from the first shop, i couldnt believe it. I just knew that with all those add-ons, i couldnt have lost horses. But we will just have to see what happens.

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stefanoc
Specialist
stefanoc Dec 15, 7:11pm - #350396 

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2002 Toyota Celica

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,864
CA
dude having the timing off is pretty horrible. you could have a lot of shit bent in the engine just because its tight. you REALLY need to sue them and get at least 5000$ so if anything happens to ur engine ull buy a new one
good luck with it
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BlueGTS
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BlueGTS Dec 16, 4:39pm - #350397 

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2000 Toyota Celica

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 148
Virginia, US
I think i know the solution. I will just park my car in front of a lake, drop the hand brake, and just let it roll away...No but seriously, i dropped the gts in the toyota dealership today and they will be working on it. They think right off hand from driving it that it is some sort of electrical issues. The timing was set and the chain was fixed, but it still feels like im a cowboy trying to ride a crazy bucking horse. weird, i put the apex-i chip in it to see if it was the computer, but it still drove the same way so hopefully they can come up with a solution to the problem.

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ExNihilo
Cold Warrior
ExNihilo Dec 16, 6:28pm - #350398 
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2004 Toyota Celica GTS

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 777
Tempe, AZ
Be sure to get all the info from the 2nd shop, and the dealer, about what they found wrong with the car, in writing. Use as evidence in small claims suit against the 1st shop.

Yeah, wouldn't be at all surprised if the timing chain misadjustment caused some serious problems.

300,000 KM/Sec. Its not just a good idea, its the law.
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 148
BlueGTS
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BlueGTS Dec 16, 6:58pm - #350399 

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2000 Toyota Celica

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 148
Virginia, US
Ya, check this out, the toyota place put it on their machine, and when the CEL came on, it would not put up any codes. wtf This is gettin crazy. The thing is, about the other shop, i have to talk around to other guys because i dont know where this guy lives since he shut his business down on dec 1. I just feel like i am going to need a condom soon, because i feel like i am going to get screwed so bad cry

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BlueGTS
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BlueGTS Dec 17, 3:41pm - #350400 

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2000 Toyota Celica

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 148
Virginia, US
yeaaaaa! i got my car back. Its freakin sweet. save the condom because they only charged me with 2 hours of labor. It was something like one of the sensors was grounding out when i would push into the gas higher in the rpms, and it would just freak out. Its all good now, so im on the road again. Ill be postin picks up soon after i wash it. its kinda dirty.

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