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badceli
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badceli Dec 6, 7:53am - #344102 
2002 Absolutely Red Toyota Celica GT
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2002 Toyota Celica GT

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Texas
Fully built race engines for $4995

Just noticed that MWR has these. What do guys think? My Celica only has 30,000 miles on it. Would it be better to get this or build the engine I have. They charge $455 to install it and the core charge is $1000 for my 1zz.
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badceli
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badceli Dec 6, 7:55am - #344103 
2002 Absolutely Red Toyota Celica GT
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2002 Toyota Celica GT

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Texas
I see c2gas is on here. I would really like to hear your take on this.
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badceli
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badceli Dec 6, 8:24am - #344104 
2002 Absolutely Red Toyota Celica GT
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2002 Toyota Celica GT

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Texas
Here you go http://www.monkeywrenchracing.com for those who haven't seen it.
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Kim
GOD
Kim Dec 6, 8:46am - #344105 
2002 Red Toyota Celica GT
GOD
2002 Toyota Celica GT

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Bellflower, CA
what kind of other stuff do you need to support the car?

will stock tranny stand up to the new horsepower?

what kind of gas does it need to run on?

if it needs 100+ octane where will you get the gas?

these are a few factors you need to think about. usually more mods cost you more money and more trouble. for this motor to be swapped in, you should make the celica a full track car.

[Linked Image]
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badceli
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badceli Dec 6, 10:50am - #344106 
2002 Absolutely Red Toyota Celica GT
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2002 Toyota Celica GT

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Thanks Kim,
For a minute a thought you were asking me these questions. Then I realized that you must know the answer and were just telling me to think about these things.
As for making my car a full track car, I'm afraid that's not good enough for me. I want it all. Show car, drag racer, circuit track racer and streetable. Yes, it will be extremely hard to build a car to do well at all of these, but that's what I'm going for.

So, what do you think about getting the built engine from MWR compared to building it myself? When I say "myself" I mean getting all the parts and having a shop install them.
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HJC_Celica
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HJC_Celica Dec 6, 11:52am - #344107 
2000 Silver Toyota Celica
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2000 Toyota Celica

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BC, Canada
As for the tranny handling the power.. the Hotchkis Race Car has 300hp and it runs the stock tranny..
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guyver858
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guyver858 Dec 6, 12:05pm - #344108 
2000 silver Toyota Celica
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2000 Toyota Celica

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san diego, CA
what r the gains? any dynos of these fully built "race" engines?
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CelicaRacer05
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CelicaRacer05 Dec 6, 1:55pm - #344109 

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2000 Toyota Celica GT

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Englewood, CO
"its about 20 hp, just buy an exhaust instead"
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AZZKIKR
SHO - NUFF
AZZKIKR Dec 6, 2:46pm - #344110 

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2003 Toyota Celica GT

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ATL GA
you choose the compression...so if you were going to turbo your car, you would buy a completely built engine to hold the tolerances, with the lower compression wiseco pistons
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celicadragon
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celicadragon Dec 6, 3:35pm - #344111 

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2002 Toyota Celica

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Pittsburgh, PA
8:8:1

respect the gt-s
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AZZKIKR
SHO - NUFF
AZZKIKR Dec 6, 3:56pm - #344112 

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2003 Toyota Celica GT

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ATL GA
yup...and with the sleeves and a good o-ring job, you could use a pretty serious turbo
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Lucky_317
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Lucky_317 Dec 6, 4:42pm - #344113 

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2000 Toyota Celica

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Fontana, CA
if you go for the N/A setup I don't think it'll be worth the money.

very nice to see they are at least offering it though smile

Best 60' 1.959 best 1/4 - 13.7 @ 101mph
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c2gas
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c2gas Dec 6, 4:47pm - #344114 

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2000 Toyota Celica

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Hungary
Well.. A fully built race engine means what it means. The question is more like do you need it?

I allways like to go step by step and try to match what I need. Ofcourse I need more and more (power), but it also means that I learn to handle it more and more.

So would you use that engine on the high potential of it? becouse that would mean a turbo kit as well 3-4k, a trnny 4k. and then you want to stop and keep it on the ground for an other 2,5k.

I love the potential of my car, but I usually run on 14psi and not more. It is a lot of stress to run over 1 bar. The car becomes a beast who just doesnt want to do what you want from it.
So basically the fun factor becomes less!!!!

But if you do know that you want that it seems to be a cool price. wink
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QTRMLR_1
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QTRMLR_1 Dec 6, 6:00pm - #344115 

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2002 Toyota Celica

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Los Angeles, CA
Insane power could be fun if you have a deathwish. But really you have to wonder about pro racers...they get kicks out of driving right on the edge of losing control trying to max out the performance of a beast. Sounds like fun. grin

I get my kicks on EC.
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badceli
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badceli Dec 6, 9:23pm - #344116 
2002 Absolutely Red Toyota Celica GT
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2002 Toyota Celica GT

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Texas
HJC_Celica, tru, our tranny will handle 300hp, but if you spend the money on one of these engines, your going for more than just 300hp. You can just add a turbo to your stock engine and get that. I'm going for 400whp. Which I will need a tranny from c2power to handle that.

CelicaRacer05, that was a good one. I'm sure you were just kidding, right?

Thanks Steve, I knew you would know about these. So do you think it is a good deal?

Lucky_317, you're right there. I wouldn't get one if I didn't have a turbo.

c2gas, thank you very much. I always hang on your every word. To answer your first question, yes, I really need it. There is no half ass job that will make me happy. All or nothing.
I will definitely use the engine to it's highest potential. I just hope it can handle me. You make some damn good power with your car, but I'm afraid that's not good enough for me because I have to go one step more than what has been done. If the record is 386whp, than I need 400.
I do have a turbo and I will be getting a tranny from you soon.
I don't agree with you on the fun factor becoming less. When you said the car becomes a beast, I got all excited. I can't wait. I sold my sport bike because it will only do 165mph, that bored me. I need one that will do 200mph.
Thanks again for your post.

QTRMLR_1, you know I'm with you on this one. So would you get the engine?
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c2gas
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c2gas Dec 6, 9:42pm - #344117 

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2000 Toyota Celica

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Hungary
LOL Actually I sold my R1 and started to miss it, so I had to build my car to feel like a bike.
I am not saying its not fun, I am saying too much power can disturb ( mainly the front driven power does it). It disturbs me for sure.
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QTRMLR_1
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QTRMLR_1 Dec 6, 10:11pm - #344118 

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2002 Toyota Celica

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Los Angeles, CA
yeah FWD and RWD both have their "fun" factor, but they're different in the way the beast goes down. FWD is fun in trying to keep control of the steering on the full-throttle gear shifts. RWD is fun in hoping your car doesn't veer off and smash into a wall when you take off on two wheels and steer with none! grin

I get my kicks on EC.
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badceli
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badceli Dec 6, 10:22pm - #344119 
2002 Absolutely Red Toyota Celica GT
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2002 Toyota Celica GT

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c2gas,
So does it feel like your R1 did? I have never driven a 2500 pound car with as much power as yours has.

QTRMLR_1,
I'm sure you know the silver Celica who did the 3SGTE swap and made 500hp. He said the shop that did his swap is working on an AWD conversion for our cars. Have you heard of this?
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c2gas
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c2gas Dec 6, 10:58pm - #344120 

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2000 Toyota Celica

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Hungary
Well surely not the same acceleration, but the feeling and the adrenalin level is just the same in it. So it fully replace my ex "drog".
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badceli
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badceli Dec 6, 11:05pm - #344121 
2002 Absolutely Red Toyota Celica GT
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2002 Toyota Celica GT

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Nice. While I have you here, I have been trying to find out how to increase the top speed of my Celica. AZZKIKR said your tranny will do that. Can you tell me the top speed of your car?
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badceli
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badceli Dec 6, 11:13pm - #344122 
2002 Absolutely Red Toyota Celica GT
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2002 Toyota Celica GT

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Also, you said 4k for a tranny. I'm guessing you mean for yours right? If so, If I order one from you now, how long until I would get it?
Sorry, I'm sure you have asked this stuff a million times, but I'm going to keep bugging you as long as you let me.
Just so you know, I'm not just a looky loo. I have about 60k into my Celica and I will be putting about another 50k into it in the next couple years.
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sbocaj55
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sbocaj55 Dec 6, 11:15pm - #344123 

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2000 Toyota Celica

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Pennsylvania
badceli you sound like a crazy rich ass adrenaline junkie to me...but your drive is cool. Go out and be the best...but don't kill yourself.
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badceli
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badceli Dec 6, 11:22pm - #344124 
2002 Absolutely Red Toyota Celica GT
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2002 Toyota Celica GT

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Texas
LOL!!! Thanks sbocaj55. Damn that was funny. I wish I knew how to put that in a sig.
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Celica_turbo
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Celica_turbo Dec 6, 11:29pm - #344125 
2000 Silver Toyota Celica GT Turbo
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2000 Toyota Celica GT Turbo

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Denmark
Like c2gas said.Too much power and you have to look at the road all the time.My friend have a740kg, 370hp toyota starlet.It is all over the road.
Finn.
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badceli
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badceli Dec 6, 11:40pm - #344126 
2002 Absolutely Red Toyota Celica GT
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2002 Toyota Celica GT

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Thanks Celica_turbo. Sounds like fun to me.
I love your car by the way.
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QTRMLR_1
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QTRMLR_1 Dec 7, 12:06am - #344127 

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2002 Toyota Celica

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badceli, you increase the top speed by increasing the final drive ratio. For example if it's 4.312 you increase it to a higher gear of 3.0 for example. But that slows your acceleration so you'll hit the "top" speed later. Your theoretical top speed is fine with a final drive with 4.312 which is also the same in the stock GT tranny. With the extra power you'll be hitting higher speeds sooner of course. But as far as the "top" speed you want I don't know. What speed are you thinking of?

According to this website: http://www.f-body.org/gears/ your theoretical top speed in 6th gear is 173 mph redlining at 7000 rpm (and with 205/50/17 tires). That 6-speed is the C2 tranny for the GT.

With a Final Drive of 3.0 you can theoretically hit 249 mph in 6th, with all the same stuff mentioned as above.

But if you don't have the power, not only will you get up slow, you might not have the power to hit that theoretical gearing speed due to wind resistance and rolling resistance.
Going downhill helps yes, and so would a wind at your back as opposed to the other way, but of course there's still air resistance.

Personally I wouldn't change the final drive ratio unless you make around 650 hp.

Why does the McLaren F1 which has 680 hp and has a top recorded speed of 240.3 mph only do the quarter mile in 11.5 s? The answer is that it has a final drive ratio of 2.37.

I get my kicks on EC.
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badceli
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badceli Dec 7, 12:16am - #344128 
2002 Absolutely Red Toyota Celica GT
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2002 Toyota Celica GT

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Outstanding. That is what I was looking for. 173mph will be just fine. I just wanted something that would get the heart pounding when I have an open stretch of freeway in the middle of nowhere. 173 should do that just fine. Thanks. You are the man.
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badceli
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badceli Dec 7, 12:18am - #344129 
2002 Absolutely Red Toyota Celica GT
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2002 Toyota Celica GT

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Texas
Of course if somebody comes out with a custom 7 speed for our cars, that would be great too.
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JSPITZ
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JSPITZ Dec 7, 1:30am - #344130 

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2004 Toyota Celica

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SPRINGFIELD, VA
you do know that you have to send your engine in to them right eek do you have another ride to get around in, oh shit your from texas you can just ride horseback everywhere till you get your engine finished rofl rofl

[Linked Image]
HONDA HUNTER
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badceli
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badceli Dec 7, 1:42am - #344131 
2002 Absolutely Red Toyota Celica GT
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2002 Toyota Celica GT

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That's pretty funny JSPITZ, but I don't live on a ranch. Yes, I have a few cars and trucks. I didn't put them in this painting because they are not red.
1953371791-1953359651-1953353226-101_4042.jpg
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badceli
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badceli Dec 7, 1:47am - #344132 
2002 Absolutely Red Toyota Celica GT
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2002 Toyota Celica GT

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Texas
But now that you mention it, that was going to be my next question. I would like to just ship my car to MWR and ask them to do the swap for me.
They say they charge $455 to install the engine. I wonder what they would charge to pull mine out and just do the swap? Figured I would see if any of you know before I write to them and have to sit and wait on an answer.
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Death
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Death Dec 7, 1:54am - #344133 

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2002 Toyota Celica

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San Antonio, TX/Vancouver, WA
These engine packages are the 'start' if not finish of one badass motor. 10,000rpm capable 11.5:1 (stock 2zz compression) or a 8.8:1 low compression for a badass turbo setup. I think 5k is a good price..

$4995
-1800
$3195

for one badass 2ZZ, just get a PFC to be 10k rpm capable. Should be able to make power all the way with the right fuel map.

[Linked Image]
Airman First Class
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badceli
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badceli Dec 7, 2:30am - #344134 
2002 Absolutely Red Toyota Celica GT
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2002 Toyota Celica GT

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Texas
Thanks Death. That sounds funny "thanks Death". Where did you read that about the 10k rpm? It doesn't say much on the site.
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QTRMLR_1
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QTRMLR_1 Dec 7, 4:10am - #344135 

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2002 Toyota Celica

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Los Angeles, CA
thanks, badceli. just always trying to help. smile

guys, he has a 1zz and I don't think he plans to switch.

Yeah I think that's a good price if all goes well as it should since MWR is experienced with 1zz's and 2zz's. If you're going to go through MWR I would have them do the entire engine removal, build, and drop-in. You don't want them to blame you for anything or blame anyone else you hire in case something doesn't work right.

I noticed the 5k-ish price doesn't include cylinder head port and polish as that looks like it would be an additional $600 from the info on the website.
Another issue is the quality of the port and polish of the cylinder head. I don't know how good MWR is in that area, but the skill definitely varies from place to place. In general, it is very easy to make the flow worse. It is very important to have the "before" and "after" flowbench test results to compare. Does MWR do this? I don't know.

I get my kicks on EC.
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badceli
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badceli Dec 7, 9:00am - #344136 
2002 Absolutely Red Toyota Celica GT
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2002 Toyota Celica GT

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Texas
I wish we could get somebody from MWR to come on here so we could all pick their brain for a day. That's another thing I like about c2gas. He comes on each Celica site to answer our questions. That's just good business. Sure we could write to MWR and ask them all the same questions we all want to know and they could answer them a million different times, but why not just come on here.
I'm going to write to them and ask them if they will send a rep to come here once in sometime.
Now if c2gas had this engine, I would by buy it from him. Getting it to him would be the problem.
I will ask MWR for a before and after flowbench test result. Of course I don't what would be good, so I'll need your help with that if I can get it. As for the quality of their work, anybody who build a 1zz to put out the hp they did, has to be good, right?
So what about this 10,000 rpm's that "Death" is talking about, ever heard of that?
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QTRMLR_1
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QTRMLR_1 Dec 7, 11:09am - #344137 

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2002 Toyota Celica

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Los Angeles, CA
Originally Posted by QTRMLR_1
badceli, you increase the top speed by increasing the final drive ratio. For example if it's 4.312 you increase it to a higher gear of 3.0 for example.


Sorry I said that wrong. It's decrease the ratio to a higher gear. Just thought I would point it out first just in case any one of you nitpicks like me point it out. grin

I get my kicks on EC.
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badceli
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badceli Dec 7, 11:23am - #344138 
2002 Absolutely Red Toyota Celica GT
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2002 Toyota Celica GT

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Texas
I don't think anybody would have mentioned it. We knew what you meant. So what about this 10,000 rpm thing? I'm not having any luck researching that.
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QTRMLR_1
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QTRMLR_1 Dec 7, 11:25am - #344139 

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2002 Toyota Celica

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Los Angeles, CA
Originally Posted by badceli
I wish we could get somebody from MWR to come on here so we could all pick their brain for a day. That's another thing I like about c2gas. He comes on each Celica site to answer our questions. That's just good business. Sure we could write to MWR and ask them all the same questions we all want to know and they could answer them a million different times, but why not just come on here.
I'm going to write to them and ask them if they will send a rep to come here once in sometime.
Now if c2gas had this engine, I would by buy it from him. Getting it to him would be the problem.
I will ask MWR for a before and after flowbench test result. Of course I don't what would be good, so I'll need your help with that if I can get it. As for the quality of their work, anybody who build a 1zz to put out the hp they did, has to be good, right?
So what about this 10,000 rpm's that "Death" is talking about, ever heard of that?


Yes it would be nice if MWR had a rep on this site considering how many times their company gets mentioned on here as far as a source for internals and other stuff. Matt from MWR does go on the other celica site though and gives his opinions. Now C2Gas is just awesome. He runs a shop full time but still comes on here to give advice and help us out. He doesn't need to as his reputation has sent us to his website anyway with many beginning to place orders.

hmmmm...10,000 rpms...that definitely sounds like death. He was talking about it on a GTS. I'm not saying it's impossible, but there IS risk even if you prepare all you can by going titanium valves, ti retainers, valve springs, forged connecting rods, etc. And that would only be for an All Motor application. With a turbo, you have no reason to go close to that rpm.

I get my kicks on EC.
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badceli
Specialist
badceli Dec 7, 11:45am - #344140 
2002 Absolutely Red Toyota Celica GT
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2002 Toyota Celica GT

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Texas
Well now I really have a bone to pick with MWR. I didn't know he goes on other sites. Doesn't he know that this is the best damn site on the internet. Even if it does go down sometimes. It's still the best group of people. All the other sites do is sit and call each other idiots.
Anyway, I thought 10,000 rpms sounded a little high. Just checking. That would be one hell of a screemer though.
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QTRMLR_1
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QTRMLR_1 Dec 7, 11:49am - #344141 

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2002 Toyota Celica

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Los Angeles, CA
Originally Posted by badceli
That would be one hell of a screemer though.


Yes for sure. And imagine that with a straight pipe. But you would only be able to enjoy the music for so long until...silence...

I get my kicks on EC.
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badceli
Specialist
badceli Dec 7, 12:00pm - #344142 
2002 Absolutely Red Toyota Celica GT
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2002 Toyota Celica GT

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Texas
I'm sure you're right. I'll stick with the redline I have now.
silvergt300 just sent me a pm. I'm trying to get him to stop by more often right now so I can pick his brain. Does that guy have nice car or what?
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QTRMLR_1
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QTRMLR_1 Dec 7, 12:04pm - #344143 

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2002 Toyota Celica

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Los Angeles, CA
what's the rev limit on a GT?

I get my kicks on EC.
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QTRMLR_1
Specialist
QTRMLR_1 Dec 7, 12:06pm - #344144 

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2002 Toyota Celica

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Los Angeles, CA
yes I just saw a pic of silvergt300's car. that is fine.

I get my kicks on EC.
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badceli
Specialist
badceli Dec 7, 12:06pm - #344145 
2002 Absolutely Red Toyota Celica GT
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2002 Toyota Celica GT

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Texas
What?!!!! There is something that you don't know?!!!! How can this be?
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QTRMLR_1
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QTRMLR_1 Dec 7, 12:09pm - #344146 

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2002 Toyota Celica

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Los Angeles, CA
One of my friends has a GT but he's a bit paranoid of hitting the rev limiter, so we don't know where it is. 7000 rpm? more?

well at least I know what it is on GTS's depending on year.

I get my kicks on EC.
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badceli
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badceli Dec 7, 12:17pm - #344147 
2002 Absolutely Red Toyota Celica GT
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2002 Toyota Celica GT

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Texas
Actually I don't know the exact number either. I know it makes it's 140hp at 6400 rpm, but I'm not sure what the rev limiter is set at. Shit. Now I have to look that up real quick.
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QTRMLR_1
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QTRMLR_1 Dec 7, 12:19pm - #344148 

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2002 Toyota Celica

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Los Angeles, CA
MWR does run his 1zz up to 7440 rpm, but that's with the PowerFC which can adjust all limits.

I get my kicks on EC.
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badceli
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badceli Dec 7, 12:35pm - #344149 
2002 Absolutely Red Toyota Celica GT
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2002 Toyota Celica GT

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Texas
Damn! 7440, that's pretty high for a GT. Now I have to find out if I can do that with my Greddy E-Manage. There is so much shit I don't know about. I need to just sit down and start researching all this stuff.
I spend too much time jumping from subject to subject. Shopping for wheels, engines, turbo parts, sound systems, brakes, coilovers, body mods. Hard to sit still and focus on one thing.
You just be sure to tell me when I'm bugging you too much. I'll leave you alone for now.
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Death
Member
Death Dec 7, 12:40pm - #344150 

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2002 Toyota Celica

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San Antonio, TX/Vancouver, WA
Originally Posted by QTRMLR_1

thanks, badceli. just always trying to help. smile

guys, he has a 1zz and I don't think he plans to switch.

Yeah I think that's a good price if all goes well as it should since MWR is experienced with 1zz's and 2zz's. If you're going to go through MWR I would have them do the entire engine removal, build, and drop-in. You don't want them to blame you for anything or blame anyone else you hire in case something doesn't work right.



I noticed the 5k-ish price doesn't include cylinder head port and polish as that looks like it would be an additional $600 from the info on the website.
Another issue is the quality of the port and polish of the cylinder head. I don't know how good MWR is in that area, but the skill definitely varies from place to place. In general, it is very easy to make the flow worse. It is very important to have the "before" and "after" flowbench test results to compare. Does MWR do this? I don't know.


I can honestly say that MWR is the shop right now for 1zz-2zz work. Their MR-S was at something like 350+ hp. They broke the record as far as everyone knows in reguard to the power output of a 1zz. I didn't read 10k rpm anywhere, but when I ordered my PFC from them about six months ago they told me over the phone that they had taken the stock valve train up to 9k with no problems. After sleeving the block and installing MWR valves and valve springs it would a walk in the park for that engine. Too bad the PFC only lets you program a fuel map up to 9,999rpm. I'm sure the engine could take more abuse than that.

Oh ya, as far as a 1zz with all this work. Thats gonna be one badass turbo motor, all you would need to complete this setup would be c2gas's gearset.

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c2gas
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c2gas Dec 7, 12:44pm - #344151 

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2000 Toyota Celica

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 307
Hungary
The rev limiter is set at 6700 rpm on the GT. If the engine is modded the rev limiter can safely and easyly modded to 8000 rpm.
I have mine there. But I messed up the valves before I got the stronger ones (springs as well) from MWR.
Our trannies are modified for stronger cars, mainly for boosted ones. We modded each gear ratio and the fibal gear as well. The top speed is set at 187mph on both the GT and the GTS.
I have done ~168mph with stock tranny. Hard to tell as there are no marks on the tacho. Was trying to catch (impossible) a Hayabusa. Well I could not catch him but shocked him for a couple of minutes. He just could not believe (as he turned his had all the time).
MWR is showing up on other forums, you should tell him it worth to come here as well. Contact Matt he is a nice guy there.
And yes i meant our ranny with the 4k USD.
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