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FWD vs RWD #336381 Nov 26, 7:07pm Nov 26, 7:07pm
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FWD vs RWD
what r the advantages and disadvantages of the two, and overall which is better.

Re: FWD vs RWD [Re: Clyde] #336382 Nov 26, 7:43pm Nov 26, 7:43pm
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Its really up to the driver and what he intends to do with the car. If you have a real wheel drive its much easier to drift. If you have a front wheel drive, in most cases you will have the lead off the start of a race. Front wheel drives for the most part have very good handling. Theres a lot more advantages and disadvantages of both though...I just named a few thumbsup

Re: FWD vs RWD [Re: Rick] #336383 Nov 26, 7:52pm Nov 26, 7:52pm
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but i hear FWD,s understeer a bit, so i guess you have to be a good driver on the track to balance out the turns. Also FWD's have a lot more stress placed on the steering and front wheels so it needs more servicing.

well thats wat ive heard anyway, correct me if im wrong.


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Re: FWD vs RWD [Re: Clyde] #336384 Nov 26, 8:19pm Nov 26, 8:19pm
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FW pells car, RW pushes car.


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Re: FWD vs RWD [Re: Polykarb] #336385 Nov 26, 8:22pm Nov 26, 8:22pm
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^^ yeah causing understeer and over steer. in more practical ways fwd is better for traction in rain ice snow ect. rwd spins out easy on ice in water ect. fwd looses less horsepower in the transfer to the wheels. rwd is better in accelerating being when you go weight shifts to the back of the car.


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Re: FWD vs RWD [Re: Polykarb] #336386 Nov 26, 8:23pm Nov 26, 8:23pm
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RWD take off is a bit faster than FWD...

Re: FWD vs RWD [Re: Polykarb] #336387 Nov 26, 8:26pm Nov 26, 8:26pm
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Originally Posted by Polykarb
FW pells car, RW pushes car.


U mean FW pulls car right? if pell means nething, you gotta tell me wat it is lol

neway, wat would make a better lap time out of the 2?

Re: FWD vs RWD [Re: ragingpaseo] #336388 Nov 26, 8:28pm Nov 26, 8:28pm
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^ spineyes
Originally Posted by ragingpaseo
RWD take off is a bit faster than FWD...

Re: FWD vs RWD [Re: Clyde] #336389 Nov 26, 8:29pm Nov 26, 8:29pm
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Kinda depends on the turns and how the track is constructed. With a lot of longer stretches the RW will most likely win, on a track with lots and lots of turns the FD will most likely win

Re: FWD vs RWD [Re: Rick] #336390 Nov 26, 8:41pm Nov 26, 8:41pm
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on a striaght ahead zip, RWD owns. thumbsup look at the z, s2k, rx8, vette, rustang, camaro, why aren't they FWD??? grin

Re: FWD vs RWD [Re: ragingpaseo] #336391 Nov 26, 8:58pm Nov 26, 8:58pm
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ok


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Re: FWD vs RWD [Re: Clyde] #336392 Nov 26, 9:46pm Nov 26, 9:46pm
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between FWD and RWD, RWD can pull on FWD. the best take off is still by AWD...

Re: FWD vs RWD [Re: ragingpaseo] #336393 Nov 26, 10:18pm Nov 26, 10:18pm
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I personally stick with FWD. You can take turns a lot faster and your rear doesn't slide away as much as it would a RWD. That's why most drift cars are RWD, the ass end slides out a lot easier. To drift a FWD, you have to E-brake it a lot! IMO, FWD will scream off the line ahead of the RWD because of the pressure on the front tires from engine weight, RWD is more likely to spin with less weight bearing on them before catching and throwing the weight of the car back on them. I guess we could argue this all day!! As far as servicing the two, they're pretty even. Just different areas, front or back? My personal preferance is FWD. I like the handling a lot better. grin

Re: FWD vs RWD [Re: Glove] #336394 Nov 27, 12:45am Nov 27, 12:45am
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someone please handle this one

Originally Posted by Glove
I personally stick with FWD. You can take turns a lot faster and your rear doesn't slide away as much as it would a RWD. That's why most drift cars are RWD, the ass end slides out a lot easier. To drift a FWD, you have to E-brake it a lot! IMO, FWD will scream off the line ahead of the RWD because of the pressure on the front tires from engine weight, RWD is more likely to spin with less weight bearing on them before catching and throwing the weight of the car back on them. I guess we could argue this all day!! As far as servicing the two, they're pretty even. Just different areas, front or back? My personal preferance is FWD. I like the handling a lot better. grin

Re: FWD vs RWD [Re: Steven] #336395 Nov 27, 1:40am Nov 27, 1:40am
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Originally Posted by Glove
I personally stick with FWD. You can take turns a lot faster and your rear doesn't slide away as much as it would a RWD. That's why most drift cars are RWD, the ass end slides out a lot easier. To drift a FWD, you have to E-brake it a lot! IMO, FWD will scream off the line ahead of the RWD because of the pressure on the front tires from engine weight, RWD is more likely to spin with less weight bearing on them before catching and throwing the weight of the car back on them. I guess we could argue this all day!! As far as servicing the two, they're pretty even. Just different areas, front or back? My personal preferance is FWD. I like the handling a lot better. grin


NASCAR, Indy, and F1 all use RWD. Pretty much every type of racing except rally will use RWD (rally uses AWD).

From a launch in a straight line race, all the weight from the car is shifted to the rear. If you're FWD that means there is less weight on the front then at a constant speed. By the laws of friction, less force on an object equals less friction, and it is very easy to spin a powerful FWD on a launch. Conversely, if you're RWD, more weight is shifted to the rear, and by the same laws of friction you will increase friction to the tires. More friction will allow you to apply more power before the wheels spin.

For a twisty track, you need to understand how understeer and oversteer affect your intended line. Understeer means your car doesn't steer as far as you intend to and tends to go in a straight line. Oversteer means the car steers too far. Understeer will almost always pull you off your intended line. The only way to correct understeer is to let off the gas, wait for the car to regain grip, and then get yourself back on to your line, or you can not turn the steering wheel so far (which will result in you going towards the end of the track, requiring you to use your brakes, etc.). Oversteer, on the other hand, can also be corrected by letting off the gas, but you can also correct it by turning the steering wheel the other way, and done properly you won't get off your intended line. Ideally in a race you would have neither oversteer nor understeer, but if you would want to have one over the other you'd want oversteer.

The main advantage for FWD is for easy driving. Oversteer requires quite a bit of driving skill to safely handle, while understeer is a bit simpler. In bad weather I'd hate to be in a RWD, because it's very easy to fishtail, and in the extreme you'd end up doing 360s on ice with no way to control it. FWD is better for those conditions because of the intuitiveness of the controls: car turns left, turn back to the right.

As ragingpaseo mentioned, allo the major sports cars use RWD. Do you think Michael Schumacher would use RWD if he knew FWD would be better handling?

Re: FWD vs RWD [Re: Steven] #336396 Nov 27, 1:44am Nov 27, 1:44am
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Originally Posted by Steven
someone please handle this one

Originally Posted by Glove
I personally stick with FWD. You can take turns a lot faster and your rear doesn't slide away as much as it would a RWD. That's why most drift cars are RWD, the ass end slides out a lot easier. To drift a FWD, you have to E-brake it a lot! IMO, FWD will scream off the line ahead of the RWD because of the pressure on the front tires from engine weight, RWD is more likely to spin with less weight bearing on them before catching and throwing the weight of the car back on them. I guess we could argue this all day!! As far as servicing the two, they're pretty even. Just different areas, front or back? My personal preferance is FWD. I like the handling a lot better. grin

Originally Posted by renfield90


NASCAR, Indy, and F1 all use RWD. Pretty much every type of racing except rally will use RWD (rally uses AWD).

From a launch in a straight line race, all the weight from the car is shifted to the rear. If you're FWD that means there is less weight on the front then at a constant speed. By the laws of friction, less force on an object equals less friction, and it is very easy to spin a powerful FWD on a launch. Conversely, if you're RWD, more weight is shifted to the rear, and by the same laws of friction you will increase friction to the tires. More friction will allow you to apply more power before the wheels spin.

For a twisty track, you need to understand how understeer and oversteer affect your intended line. Understeer means your car doesn't steer as far as you intend to and tends to go in a straight line. Oversteer means the car steers too far. Understeer will almost always pull you off your intended line. The only way to correct understeer is to let off the gas, wait for the car to regain grip, and then get yourself back on to your line, or you can not turn the steering wheel so far (which will result in you going towards the end of the track, requiring you to use your brakes, etc.). Oversteer, on the other hand, can also be corrected by letting off the gas, but you can also correct it by turning the steering wheel the other way, and done properly you won't get off your intended line. Ideally in a race you would have neither oversteer nor understeer, but if you would want to have one over the other you'd want oversteer.

The main advantage for FWD is for easy driving. Oversteer requires quite a bit of driving skill to safely handle, while understeer is a bit simpler. In bad weather I'd hate to be in a RWD, because it's very easy to fishtail, and in the extreme you'd end up doing 360s on ice with no way to control it. FWD is better for those conditions because of the intuitiveness of the controls: car turns left, turn back to the right.

As ragingpaseo mentioned, allo the major sports cars use RWD. Do you think Michael Schumacher would use RWD if he knew FWD would be better handling?


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Re: FWD vs RWD [Re: Zero] #336397 Nov 27, 1:59am Nov 27, 1:59am
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Man why do so many people say FWD is better than RWD in take-off confused I mean isnt it easier to push than to pull RWD=push...FWD=pull...sooo IMO RWD is faster in take off, that is if you dont spend most of your time peeling out thumbsup

Re: FWD vs RWD [Re: BaTMaN_4] #336398 Nov 27, 2:20am Nov 27, 2:20am
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rwd>fwd except for in the snow... assuming the RWD is a FR.

Re: FWD vs RWD [Re: spaztikid] #336399 Nov 27, 2:24am Nov 27, 2:24am
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u can have pretty much as much hp as you want on a rwd. a front drive is pretty limited to 300. rwd axles are hella stronger


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Re: FWD vs RWD [Re: FPcelica] #336400 Nov 27, 3:38am Nov 27, 3:38am
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There are sooo many reasons why RWD is better than FWD. The only reasons FWD exists are 1) people can't drive in bad weather 2) it's cheaper to produce.

As people have said, you can only deliver so much power to the front wheels. Because of the dynamics of weight shift during launch, RWD cars are infinitely better designed for drag racing. In terms of turns, again RWD wins. When you turn, you're moving the front tires in a different direction. When you do this with tons of power going to them, it's very easy to either break the wheels loose.

No serious racer would EVER consider FWD superior. rice


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Re: FWD vs RWD [Re: RevMonster] #336401 Nov 27, 5:43am Nov 27, 5:43am
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I want an all wheel drive, like the 1995 GT4 Celica tongue


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Re: FWD vs RWD [Re: iggy] #336402 Nov 27, 5:50am Nov 27, 5:50am
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There is a shop Florida working on an AWD conversion for our car. Can't wait.

Re: FWD vs RWD [Re: badceli] #336403 Nov 27, 6:06am Nov 27, 6:06am
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Originally Posted by badceli
There is a shop Florida working on an AWD conversion for our car. Can't wait.


oh damnnn thats gona cost lots spineyes wooooooooot can't wait either, do tell more, PM me. thumbsup


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Re: FWD vs RWD [Re: iggy] #336404 Nov 27, 3:28pm Nov 27, 3:28pm
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In racing, there are no advantages of FWD. The only reason why automakers use FWD is because it's cheaper and "safer". You run into torque steer with FWD ALL THE TIME. That's my biggest problem. You can't fishtail, you "fishhead". WHen a RWD accelerates hard, it gains about 30% more traction, on the same token, FWD loses about 30% of its traction. Another advantage is off the immediate start, FWD has less drive line power loss than RWD. However, it all reverses as soon as the cars start moving. In terms of handling, RWD is also better. The weight setup allows for more hard handling. They tend to be set at 50/50 or something more biased towards the rear. Then there's the whole understeer/oversteer issue to deal with. You will never see a supercar or serious performance vehicle with FWD, they're all RWD, except Lamborghini, which uses AWD.

Does that answer your questions?

Like Revmonster said, anyone who thinks FWD is superior is the true ricer/dumbass.


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Re: FWD vs RWD [Re: jyboygenius] #336405 Nov 27, 8:18pm Nov 27, 8:18pm
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When it comes down to this subject AWD is better.


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Re: FWD vs RWD [Re: jyboygenius] #336406 Nov 27, 8:24pm Nov 27, 8:24pm
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I agree that serious race cars are RWD.

But this doesn't mean that RWD will always dominate FWD on a track:

There is at least one FWD car that can hold its own on a road track:

"Hotchkis/Raybestos STS Celica Wins in Pennsylvania"

June 6, 2004 Wampum, PA.
The Hotchkis Tuning/Raybestos STS Toyota Celica finished first in the National Autosports Association Super Unlimited class at BeaveRun Motorsports Complex. The Celica driven by John Hotchkis started second, battled with a very strong Audi for five laps and then gained the lead and maintained it throughout the 30 minute race. With 35 cars, including Audi, BMW, Mazda, and VW taking the green flag, the action was non-stop for the Celica. "Throughout the weekend we had the gamut of track conditions, from full wet, drizzle, to dry, and the Celica preformed flawlessly, regardless of the weather, on the demanding 1.5 mile track," exclaimed John Hotchkis. "StopTech came through for us big time by sending overnight new StopTech/TRD calipers that improved our brake balance. This in combination with new Raybestos pad compounds gave our Celica amazing stopping power", remarked Hotchkis. Hotchkis Tuning would like to thank our fantastic sponsors. This project would not be possible without their generous support. Raybestos, Toyota Motor Sales, Toyota Racing Developments, Motor Sports Technical Center, Molly Design, Red Line Oil, Magnuson Products, The Tire Rack, Fluidyne, Aasco, Performance, Centerforce, Autometer, Hillco, Denso, Sparco, Magnaflow, APR, MoTec, and Optima.
For more information, please contact: Hotchkis Tuning www.hotchkistuning.com 562-907-7757


article taken from: (plus pics)
http://www.hotchkistuning.com/bin/misc_pages/Celica%20Extreme.htm


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Re: FWD vs RWD [Re: QTRMLR_1] #336407 Nov 27, 8:36pm Nov 27, 8:36pm
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A picture is worth...

1953355179-HotchkisRace.jpg

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Re: FWD vs RWD [Re: QTRMLR_1] #336408 Nov 27, 11:21pm Nov 27, 11:21pm
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Thanx a lot for all ur responses!!!


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Re: FWD vs RWD [Re: Clyde] #336409 Nov 28, 5:49pm Nov 28, 5:49pm
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QTRMLR, that's only one example. ONE. Still total domination if you ask me. pretty cool find though. Is this a tuner sponsered race?


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Re: FWD vs RWD [Re: jyboygenius] #336410 Nov 28, 6:21pm Nov 28, 6:21pm
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and everyone was clowning on me!! rofl Probably still will!! rofl rofl rofl rofl

Re: FWD vs RWD [Re: jyboygenius] #336411 Nov 28, 8:36pm Nov 28, 8:36pm
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Originally Posted by jyboygenius
QTRMLR, that's only one example. ONE. Still total domination if you ask me. pretty cool find though. Is this a tuner sponsered race?


no kidding. didn't I say that? Yes, ONE. What are you trying to say? ^^Thanks. I don't know if that's a tuner sponsored race, though it's certainly not just any "amateur" race. I knew someone would be proud of the Celica. wink If you're going to be "stuck" with FWD, the one to have is the Celica.


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Re: FWD vs RWD [Re: QTRMLR_1] #336412 Nov 28, 8:42pm Nov 28, 8:42pm
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although I can't back this up (maybe someone else can), I believe another FWD car that can compete on a road course is the Integra Type R, but the Celica still owns that. smile


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Re: FWD vs RWD [Re: QTRMLR_1] #336413 Nov 28, 8:47pm Nov 28, 8:47pm
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^^ wtf ITR > Celica

Re: FWD vs RWD [Re: jyboygenius] #336414 Nov 28, 8:50pm Nov 28, 8:50pm
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Originally Posted by jyboygenius
Like Revmonster said, anyone who thinks FWD is superior is the true ricer/dumbass.


boy you were certainly trying to draw FWD fans in and bash them down. Sorry I didn't disagree and say FWD is better. I know that RWD dominates. When I said something that you thought slightly questioned you, you go say "that's only one example."

my example was meant to inform. Just because RWD dominates, there are still special FWD cars, and don't count them out.


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Re: FWD vs RWD [Re: QTRMLR_1] #336415 Nov 28, 8:51pm Nov 28, 8:51pm
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^^ not the Hotchkis Celica.


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Re: FWD vs RWD [Re: BReakinDrifTs] #336416 Nov 28, 8:51pm Nov 28, 8:51pm
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^^
CRX with Enzo engine swap > ITR


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Re: FWD vs RWD [Re: QTRMLR_1] #336417 Nov 28, 8:52pm Nov 28, 8:52pm
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BReakinDrifTs
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BReakinDrifTs

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^^ Im not talking about tuned cars, anything is possible there. rolleyes

Re: FWD vs RWD [Re: BReakinDrifTs] #336418 Nov 28, 8:54pm Nov 28, 8:54pm
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QTRMLR_1
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QTRMLR_1

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I am and have been talking about tuned cars. Those RWD cars like the Audi mentioned in the article, and that Miata and RX-7 (you see lagging behind the Celica), are tuned cars in that race.


I get my kicks on EC.
Re: FWD vs RWD [Re: RevMonster] #336419 Nov 28, 8:57pm Nov 28, 8:57pm
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Originally Posted by RevMonster
^^
CRX with Enzo engine swap > ITR


that's funny. a huge ass V12 trying to get stuffed into a CRX. rofl rofl


I get my kicks on EC.
Re: FWD vs RWD [Re: QTRMLR_1] #336420 Nov 28, 10:15pm Nov 28, 10:15pm
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BReakinDrifTs
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BReakinDrifTs

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^^ Well keep staring at that picture, it's the only form of support your going to get. rice

Re: FWD vs RWD [Re: QTRMLR_1] #336421 Nov 28, 10:30pm Nov 28, 10:30pm
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hephaestus
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RWD... Should there even be a duscussion on this for performance. Most cars in this country were RWD before early 1990's or even later.
FWD... Came because the biggest car market is in the US and dumb mothers that can't drive in the snow in the U.S.A without help of a salt/sand plow can realy depend on a FWD car where the emphasis is on trucks with their 4X4 is enormous so begins the FWD.
I could be way off.

Re: FWD vs RWD [Re: BReakinDrifTs] #336422 Nov 28, 10:35pm Nov 28, 10:35pm
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QTRMLR_1
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BReakinDrifts:

"^^ Well keep staring at that picture, it's the only form of support your going to get."


That was a pointless comment. Did I ask for support? You apparently don't have the sophistication to understand what I am saying. I didn't say "agree with". I am saying you cannot comprehend my statement. Can you understand that?

BTW ^^ learn how to differentiate between "you're" and "your".


I get my kicks on EC.
Re: FWD vs RWD [Re: hephaestus] #336423 Nov 28, 10:38pm Nov 28, 10:38pm
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New South Wales, Australia
Clyde OP
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Clyde OP

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i c...


[Linked Image]

When I find myself in a position like this, I ask myself what would General Motors do? And then I do the opposite!

Re: FWD vs RWD [Re: QTRMLR_1] #336424 Nov 28, 10:45pm Nov 28, 10:45pm
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Valencia, CA
BReakinDrifTs
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BReakinDrifTs

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Originally Posted by QTRMLR_1

BReakinDrifts:

"^^ Well keep staring at that picture, it's the only form of support your going to get."


That was a pointless comment. Did I ask for support? You apparently don't have the sophistication to understand what I am saying. I didn't say "agree with". I am saying you cannot comprehend my statement. Can you understand that?

BTW ^^ learn how to differentiate between "you're" and "your".



thatsfunny Sophistication. All I was trying to say is that when you are talking about fully tuned vehicles, anything is possible and it is just pointless to argue about which car would be better and why. There could be many factors to why that Miata and Rx-7 are lagging behind in that picture. If it happened consistently then you would have an argument. Meanwhile, RWD is always owning FWD cars.
There isn't a single situation that it would be better to have a FWD if you know how to drive. Oh yeah, dont bring grammar into this, you are ten years older than me and I'm not going to bother with this "debate" in too much detail. rofl

Re: FWD vs RWD [Re: BReakinDrifTs] #336425 Nov 28, 11:03pm Nov 28, 11:03pm
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BReakinDrifTs
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BReakinDrifTs

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I agree with what you are saying, that a GTS which may be weak in power can pull ahead of the heavier powered cars because of it's superb handling, but that doesn't mean front wheel drive cars are better for the track. It just means sometimes the better handling cars are better for the track. I can guarantee you there are lots of rear-wheel drive cars that can outhandle a celica on the track, and kill them on the drag strip also. Tuning the suspension has a lot more to do with how fast lap times are going to be rather than drivetrain. wink

Re: FWD vs RWD [Re: BReakinDrifTs] #336426 Nov 28, 11:07pm Nov 28, 11:07pm
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you still don't get it. did I say FWD was equal? did I say RWD does not dominate FWD in general? plus you throw in all this other junk in your paragraphs I didn't even address. you're hopeless, but you don't know that.


I get my kicks on EC.
Re: FWD vs RWD [Re: QTRMLR_1] #336427 Nov 28, 11:14pm Nov 28, 11:14pm
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BReakinDrifTs
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^^ How many times are you going to edit your post before you get it straight? What you said was, "don't forget about those special cars that can hold their own on the track." I said thats true, but RWD will always be better than FWD. Only reason Im making this clear is to prevent any rice boys reading this from running around thinking their front wheel drive car is better than Miata's and RX-7's. wave

Re: FWD vs RWD [Re: Glove] #336428 Nov 28, 11:22pm Nov 28, 11:22pm
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BReakinDrifTs
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Originally Posted by Rick
Kinda depends on the turns and how the track is constructed. With a lot of longer stretches the RW will most likely win, on a track with lots and lots of turns the FD will most likely win


NOT TRUE.
Originally Posted by Glove
I personally stick with FWD. You can take turns a lot faster and your rear doesn't slide away as much as it would a RWD. That's why most drift cars are RWD, the ass end slides out a lot easier. To drift a FWD, you have to E-brake it a lot! IMO, FWD will scream off the line ahead of the RWD because of the pressure on the front tires from engine weight, RWD is more likely to spin with less weight bearing on them before catching and throwing the weight of the car back on them. I guess we could argue this all day!! As far as servicing the two, they're pretty even. Just different areas, front or back? My personal preferance is FWD. I like the handling a lot better. grin


This entire post is what I'm talking about.

Re: FWD vs RWD [Re: BReakinDrifTs] #336429 Nov 28, 11:24pm Nov 28, 11:24pm
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QTRMLR_1
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You can leave your posts unedited with bad grammar which you wouldn't even realize on a second glance. BUT I'm going to edit my posts as many times as I think is necessary to make it easy enough for you to understand. Yes that is what I wrote, and NOW you say that is true. If you realized I said that, you wouldn't have had anything to say to me. Yet you make up that bogus reason that you didn't want rice boys to be misinformed. Oh please...


I get my kicks on EC.
Re: FWD vs RWD [Re: QTRMLR_1] #336430 Nov 28, 11:31pm Nov 28, 11:31pm
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Valencia, CA
BReakinDrifTs
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Bogus reason? The entire reason this thread was created because someone didn't know if FWD is better than RWD. rolleyes Some people can and will be misinformed.

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