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Research Question (Everyone read) #31318 Jul 27, 11:11am Jul 27, 11:11am
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Research Question (Everyone read)
Alright guys. I've been thinking about how to get some pretty numbers from our cars without forced induction. You all know what the lsVtec is right? Well, what if we put the 2zz head on the 1zz block? (thats the GTS head on the GT block). Would this be good? Because of the head, we would have lift, and because of the stroke we would have better torque. What do you think? I know there would have to be some modifications done, but lets start getting detailed here. Put in your 2 cents and if it gets reliable results, maybe I will try it.

Dan

Re: Research Question (Everyone read) [Re: Grand-Touring-Dan] #31319 Jul 27, 12:45pm Jul 27, 12:45pm
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hmmmm...good idea. Not sure if it would work though. confused confused

Re: Research Question (Everyone read) [Re: spaztikid] #31320 Jul 27, 3:03pm Jul 27, 3:03pm
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how about the cams?


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Re: Research Question (Everyone read) [Re: Grand-Touring-Dan] #31321 Jul 27, 3:06pm Jul 27, 3:06pm
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the cams are in the head. I heard that the head and/or block will have to be machined for it to fit. also, you'll need some sort of management for the VVTL-i. I heard this was done in Japan on a MR-S or MR-2, i can't remember. Supposedly they got 240ish crank hp.

Re: Research Question (Everyone read) [Re: Grand-Touring-Dan] #31322 Jul 27, 8:58pm Jul 27, 8:58pm
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sounds like it might work on paper. that would be a good thing to look into. 240hp would be sweet! thumbsup


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Re: Research Question (Everyone read) [Re: Grand-Touring-Dan] #31323 Jul 27, 9:05pm Jul 27, 9:05pm
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how much hp is this going to yield? Estimating...


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Re: Research Question (Everyone read) [Re: VSGTS14] #31324 Jul 27, 9:08pm Jul 27, 9:08pm
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Originally Posted by VSGTS14
how much hp is this going to yield? Estimating...


I couldn't tell you. I think 240 is out of the question. But then with other mods and internal work, like high comp pistons and rods. We would have the power of the GTS in a GT with more torque. I'm thinking that it would be at around 200 give or take, maybe even more. I do not want to get ahead of myself. I need to do more research. Right now this is just brainstorming.

Re: Research Question (Everyone read) [Re: Grand-Touring-Dan] #31325 Jul 27, 9:21pm Jul 27, 9:21pm
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Originally Posted by Grand-Touring-Dan
Originally Posted by VSGTS14
how much hp is this going to yield? Estimating...


I couldn't tell you. I think 240 is out of the question. But then with other mods and internal work, like high comp pistons and rods. We would have the power of the GTS in a GT with more torque. I'm thinking that it would be at around 200 give or take, maybe even more. I do not want to get ahead of myself. I need to do more research. Right now this is just brainstorming.


so you are basically having a GTS with more torque with more mods that is going to make it expensive? 200 to the wheels?


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Re: Research Question (Everyone read) [Re: VSGTS14] #31326 Jul 27, 9:22pm Jul 27, 9:22pm
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sounds really cool... making the GT's scary good research


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Re: Research Question (Everyone read) [Re: Grand-Touring-Dan] #31327 Jul 27, 9:24pm Jul 27, 9:24pm
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anythings possible as long as you have money!


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Re: Research Question (Everyone read) [Re: Grand-Touring-Dan] #31328 Jul 27, 9:25pm Jul 27, 9:25pm
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Well, for a high performance car, it's not cheap. They somehow I don't know if it would be to the crank or the wheels. Like I said, I do not want to get ahead of myself. I will try some more research in this if anyone is interested in it.

But the GTS has higher comp pistons than us, which is a reason for they more hp, so high comp pistons in this new setup would be very beneficial. The stroke is longer though which is the reason for the torque loss. Have you noticed that a GT and GTS are pretty close in the 1/8. I can beat some GTS' on this board in the 1/8. Does this make sense?

Re: Research Question (Everyone read) [Re: GOLDCELICA] #31329 Jul 27, 9:26pm Jul 27, 9:26pm
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Originally Posted by GOLDCELICA
anythings possible as long as you have money!


money and the R&D time. I think that this would be affordable, even cheaper than a turbo. But will take a lot more time and the money will be more for me if I decide to take action. But if I can figure it out so that it works, I think it would be excellent.

Re: Research Question (Everyone read) [Re: Grand-Touring-Dan] #31330 Jul 27, 9:41pm Jul 27, 9:41pm
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Originally Posted by Grand-Touring-Dan
Originally Posted by GOLDCELICA
anythings possible as long as you have money!


money and the R&D time. I think that this would be affordable, even cheaper than a turbo. But will take a lot more time and the money will be more for me if I decide to take action. But if I can figure it out so that it works, I think it would be excellent.


more reliable than a turbo also.

I think I know what you are talking about though.


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Re: Research Question (Everyone read) [Re: VSGTS14] #31331 Jul 27, 10:29pm Jul 27, 10:29pm
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i think it would end up being more than a turbo. You'd need to buy the head, have it installed, get a new ecu(or non existant ecu mod)...all that = mucho deniro

Re: Research Question (Everyone read) [Re: spaztikid] #31332 Jul 27, 10:38pm Jul 27, 10:38pm
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Originally Posted by spaztikid
i think it would end up being more than a turbo. You'd need to buy the head, have it installed, get a new ecu(or non existant ecu mod)...all that = mucho deniro


*cough*junkyard*cough*

Re: Research Question (Everyone read) [Re: Grand-Touring-Dan] #31333 Jul 27, 10:40pm Jul 27, 10:40pm
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oh, and installing a head is not difficult at all. Plus if I can get some sort of connections with shops and other people, who knows what kinda price we're looking at.

Re: Research Question (Everyone read) [Re: Grand-Touring-Dan] #31334 Jul 27, 10:44pm Jul 27, 10:44pm
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would lift kick in at the same rpm's as in a gts?

Re: Research Question (Everyone read) [Re: spaztikid] #31335 Jul 27, 10:50pm Jul 27, 10:50pm
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Originally Posted by spaztikid
would lift kick in at the same rpm's as in a gts?


Don't know yet. May have to get some kind of FC controller. Much research needs to be done.

Re: Research Question (Everyone read) [Re: Grand-Touring-Dan] #31336 Jul 27, 10:58pm Jul 27, 10:58pm
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Originally Posted by Grand-Touring-Dan
Originally Posted by spaztikid
would lift kick in at the same rpm's as in a gts?


Don't know yet. May have to get some kind of FC controller. Much research needs to be done.


If this turns out to be feasable and costs less than a turbo i would definately do it.

Re: Research Question (Everyone read) [Re: Grand-Touring-Dan] #31337 Jul 28, 12:03am Jul 28, 12:03am
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There is a very respectable machine shop in my area that is very good at working with the 1zz motor. I am going to go there soon and talk with them.

Re: Research Question (Everyone read) [Re: Grand-Touring-Dan] #31338 Jul 28, 12:05am Jul 28, 12:05am
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cool...post new info when you get it. thumbsup

Re: Research Question (Everyone read) [Re: Grand-Touring-Dan] #31339 Jul 28, 8:53am Jul 28, 8:53am
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Originally Posted by Grand-Touring-Dan
Originally Posted by spaztikid
would lift kick in at the same rpm's as in a gts?


Don't know yet. May have to get some kind of FC controller. Much research needs to be done.


if lift kicked in a lower rpm throughout thre rest of the rpm's...that would be awesome.


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Re: Research Question (Everyone read) [Re: VSGTS14] #31340 Jul 28, 9:30am Jul 28, 9:30am
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I agree that for the time and money involved you are probably just as well off to buy a turbo for your gt, or just trade it in on a gts


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Re: Research Question (Everyone read) [Re: Evan] #31341 Jul 28, 9:35am Jul 28, 9:35am
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Originally Posted by EvanJ
I agree that for the time and money involved you are probably just as well off to buy a turbo for your gt, or just trade it in on a gts


But if this works, think of how it will change everything for other enthusiasts. I do not mind spending much of my time as long as it will help others. I'm not selfish. We are all on the same team and I'm willing to go the 9 yards.

Re: Research Question (Everyone read) [Re: Grand-Touring-Dan] #31342 Jul 28, 9:37am Jul 28, 9:37am
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Originally Posted by Grand-Touring-Dan
Originally Posted by EvanJ
I agree that for the time and money involved you are probably just as well off to buy a turbo for your gt, or just trade it in on a gts


But if this works, think of how it will change everything for other enthusiasts. I do not mind spending much of my time as long as it will help others. I'm not selfish. We are all on the same team and I'm willing to go the 9 yards.


go for it! thumbsup


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Re: Research Question (Everyone read) [Re: Grand-Touring-Dan] #31343 Jul 28, 10:23am Jul 28, 10:23am
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damn that sounds soo cool! and for those that say why not just get a turbo...a turbo shortens the lifespan of your car...this doesnt, a few hundred to a $1k isnt much considering your saving your car wink

Re: Research Question (Everyone read) [Re: Grand-Touring-Dan] #31344 Jul 28, 1:58pm Jul 28, 1:58pm
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Ive done a lot of reading and research in trying to learn a lot about cars as much as possible but i am still a newbie when it comes down to the more complicated stuff so please humor me...how would adding the 2zz head on the GT block add hp? And (you may all laugh now) what does the head do actually? what does it house?

Re: Research Question (Everyone read) [Re: XxNavixX] #31345 Jul 28, 1:58pm Jul 28, 1:58pm
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Originally Posted by XxNavixX
Ive done a lot of reading and research in trying to learn a lot about cars as much as possible but i am still a newbie when it comes down to the more complicated stuff so please humor me...how would adding the 2zz head on the GT block add hp? And (you may all laugh now) what does the head do actually? what does it house?


no, that is a very good question ... even I don't know the answer to that 100%

Re: Research Question (Everyone read) [Re: Grand-Touring-Dan] #31346 Jul 28, 2:07pm Jul 28, 2:07pm
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for engine management, I think you'd need an apex'i power fc.

Re: Research Question (Everyone read) [Re: Grand-Touring-Dan] #31347 Jul 28, 2:15pm Jul 28, 2:15pm
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The head contains the valvetrain and the cams. We would have the GTS cams meaning lift. Also the valve train meaning a redline at 8300. Is this helping? Then we would have to have either the ecu or a new management system to control lift. And since the GT stroke is shorter, that means more torque. In Japan they did this to an MR2 and yielded 240 hp. But I cannot find the article, its just something I heard. This is why I do not want to get ahead of myself.

Does that help at all?

Re: Research Question (Everyone read) [Re: Grand-Touring-Dan] #31348 Jul 28, 2:29pm Jul 28, 2:29pm
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You may want to search the ClubRSX forums too, Dan. There are a few guys experimenting with putting a K24 head(2.4L engine used in TSX, Accord, CRV) on a K20 block (2.0L RSX engine). I assume the results would be similar to what you're talking about with the 'yota zz.

Re: Research Question (Everyone read) [Re: Rice] #31349 Jul 28, 2:35pm Jul 28, 2:35pm
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Originally Posted by Rice
You may want to search the ClubRSX forums too, Dan. There are a few guys experimenting with putting a K24 head(2.4L engine used in TSX, Accord, CRV) on a K20 block (2.0L RSX engine). I assume the results would be similar to what you're talking about with the 'yota zz.


Awesome! I belong to that board, but I mainly habg out in the racing forums. DOn't know too much about the RSX performance stuff so I stay out of there. If you could get me a link or something that would be much appreciated.

Re: Research Question (Everyone read) [Re: Grand-Touring-Dan] #31350 Jul 28, 2:49pm Jul 28, 2:49pm
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yeah, I've seen you around ClubRSX. You were the one who told me about this site.

"K24 head install" is one of those topics you just gotta use the search function for, I'm afraid. Sorry I can't give you a more direct link, I never really paid attention to that particular topic.

The site owner's named Chris Dye (forum name K20A2). I believe he's one of the guys experimenting with the K24 hybrid. Also look for the forum name "edo." Edo is the guy who's been doing all the high-dollar experiments with our engine and is treated like a god on that site (and in a lot of RSX circles around the US). Both of these guys are very cool, so you can probably get away with asking technical questions via forum PM. I'm sure they can at least give you some idea of what to expect if/when you do your 1zz/2zz hybrid.

Re: Research Question (Everyone read) [Re: Grand-Touring-Dan] #31351 Jul 28, 2:52pm Jul 28, 2:52pm
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Thanks Rice. You seem to enjoy this board. Glad I gave you a good recommendation and got you aboard. You have good input. Thanks for your reply here. I will get on this very soon. I'm getting excited just thinking about it.

Re: Research Question (Everyone read) [Re: Rice] #31352 Jul 28, 6:37pm Jul 28, 6:37pm
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Awesome!

Originally Posted by Rice
yeah, I've seen you around ClubRSX. You were the one who told me about this site.

"K24 head install" is one of those topics you just gotta use the search function for, I'm afraid. Sorry I can't give you a more direct link, I never really paid attention to that particular topic.

The site owner's named Chris Dye (forum name K20A2). I believe he's one of the guys experimenting with the K24 hybrid. Also look for the forum name "edo." Edo is the guy who's been doing all the high-dollar experiments with our engine and is treated like a god on that site (and in a lot of RSX circles around the US). Both of these guys are very cool, so you can probably get away with asking technical questions via forum PM. I'm sure they can at least give you some idea of what to expect if/when you do your 1zz/2zz hybrid.

Re: Research Question (Everyone read) [Re: Grand-Touring-Dan] #31353 Jul 29, 12:58am Jul 29, 12:58am
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Yeah if you need help maybe my friend can help out with technical engine questions??? Just PM me so I can give you his number thumbsup


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Re: Research Question (Everyone read) [Re: VSGTS14] #31354 Jul 29, 4:57pm Jul 29, 4:57pm
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Is there any way to make lift kick in at lower RPM on the GTS ? Would a power FC do it ? (could you raise the rev limit with it too?)

Re: Research Question (Everyone read) [Re: Grand-Touring-Dan] #31355 Aug 4, 2:07pm Aug 4, 2:07pm
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I think that you would run into problems doing this. The gts engine has a special feature that comes into play when the VVTL-i kicks in. It sprays more oil on the internals so they are coated better and besides that the pistons are built up better than in the Gt. You can try it, and I want to know if it works but don't be surprised if you find yourself walking.

Re: Research Question (Everyone read) [Re: cretinx] #31356 Aug 4, 2:09pm Aug 4, 2:09pm
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yes and yes

Originally Posted by cretinx
Is there any way to make lift kick in at lower RPM on the GTS ? Would a power FC do it ? (could you raise the rev limit with it too?)

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