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roxyracer
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Oct 23, 12:14am - #307152 
Why not synthetic, What's you opinion?

Hi guys,

Ok I wanted to know why it isn't a good idea to use synthetic oil starting with my first oil change?

What will it hurt what are the pro's and con's please?

First oil change is Monday please help! What kind of oil would you choose if cost wasn't an issue?

Thanks!


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Oct 23, 12:21am - #307153 
GO with full synthetic!! It cant hurt your engine. The only difference is that it has more lubricants which may not be necessary for new engines but still nice to have. Plus if you start now you wont have to worry about changing to full synthetic later on.


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TaeMachine
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Oct 23, 12:41am - #307154 
The main concern with changing to synthetic early is that it won't break-in your engine well. Dino oil has a certain degree of abrasiveness that helps seat engine components with each other. Synthetic doesn't help in this process.

Of course, this is all speculations. Do as you feel.

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Kim
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Oct 23, 12:49am - #307155 
Ernest is right on the money.


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Oct 23, 7:29am - #307156 
I switched to full synthetic on my first oil change - didn't have any problems (except it was about 20-30 bucks more expensive!)


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Oct 23, 8:28am - #307157 
If money wasnt an issue with oil, i'd go with Royal Purple. But I use Mobil 1 anyway.


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Oct 23, 8:32am - #307158 
do it and use redline and do the tranny too while your at it you will hear thumbsup and fell the difference

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Psquared
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Oct 23, 5:01pm - #307159 
Yeah, I have heard of using standard oil for the first 3000 miles. Then switch to full-syn. I switched to fully syn. Royal Purple and love that stuff. I use it in my bike too. It is expensive, but lasts longer than regular oil.

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hefner
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Oct 23, 5:51pm - #307160 
take it to the dealership, they'll take care of ya for bout 20bucks


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TaeMachine
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Oct 23, 7:21pm - #307161 
I heard the concerns from both sides but I thought that it wouldn't hurt my car to wait later to do the synthetic switch.

When I first got my car, I drove under 55 mph and did my first oil change at 1000 miles with Castrol GTX and did it every 3000 miles thereafter. At 12k miles, I went to Mobile 1 Trisyn then at around 21k went to the SupeSyn. At 30k, I replaced the tranny oil with Redline MT-90.

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ragingpaseo
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Oct 23, 8:43pm - #307162 
i don't recommend switching to synthetic just yet, wait until 10000. your car is not going anywhere, it's not like you're hitting lift every single time when you drive your car. let your car to break-in first, then switch to synthetic blend, and then switch to full synthetic. it never hurts to wait. wave
by the way, i use castrol on both cars... thumbsup

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Haulin_A_Doo
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Oct 23, 11:56pm - #307163 
Originally Posted by ragingpaseo
i don't recommend switching to synthetic just yet, wait until 10000. your car is not going anywhere, it's not like you're hitting lift every single time when you drive your car. let your car to break-in first, then switch to synthetic blend, and then switch to full synthetic. it never hurts to wait. wave
by the way, i use castrol on both cars... thumbsup


Synthetic doesn't stop your engine from breaking in. Besides that point, it takes about 10 hours to break an engine in. Sythetic oil is not some miracle duralube commerical, its just oil & is very very similar to regular motor oil. Its just enhanced to take more punishment, more heat, more cold. It works exactly the same as regular oil.

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Oct 24, 12:04am - #307164 
This is what Redline recommend:
Quote:
We recommend using petroleum 10w30 motor oil on break in to ensure proper piston ring seating. If you allow 1500 to 2000 miles in a street engine or 20 to 30 minutes on the dyno at low rpm, the rings will have had sufficient time to seat and the high initial break-in wear will have occurred.


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Haulin_A_Doo
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Oct 24, 12:08am - #307165 
Sythetic is petroleum motor oil. But yah, that's about 20hrs & it sounds like its talking about a crappy GM motor with 10W30 & all. They are not milled with the same precision as a 7th gen celi motor.

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Oct 24, 12:20am - #307166 
Nice thread. thumbsup

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Oct 24, 12:57am - #307167 
how long do you guy go before you change you oil with synth? i go like 5000

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Oct 24, 1:44am - #307168 
Originally Posted by Haulin_A_Doo
Sythetic is petroleum motor oil. But yah, that's about 20hrs & it sounds like its talking about a crappy GM motor with 10W30 & all. They are not milled with the same precision as a 7th gen celi motor.

Synthetic oil is not technically petroleum based although, recently, major companies like Mobil 1 have started using petroleum-based stocks and still labeling them as synthetic.

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Oct 24, 7:56am - #307169 
Originally Posted by TaeMachine
Originally Posted by Haulin_A_Doo
Sythetic is petroleum motor oil. But yah, that's about 20hrs & it sounds like its talking about a crappy GM motor with 10W30 & all. They are not milled with the same precision as a 7th gen celi motor.

Synthetic oil is not technically petroleum based although, recently, major companies like Mobil 1 have started using petroleum-based stocks and still labeling them as synthetic.


bs What the hell do you think they make it out of? Sythetic is not actually SYNTHETIC, geeze! Its just like regular oil.

Motor oil is distilled from petroleum, as is methane, butane, natural gas, gasoline, karoseen & so on. They all represent different temperature ranges in the distillation process of the crude oil.

Regular 5W30 is distilled in a certain temperate range. It includes the entire range.

Sythetic is distilled further into different parts of the same distilled range & those parts are mixed into the oil at different portions; so they can control the behavior & perfomance of the oil. They pick and choose which parts of oil they want to blend in. The result is an oil with better characteristics, but still is VERY VERY similar to regular motor oil, its just a little better.

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Oct 24, 7:57am - #307170 
Using sythetic I change my oil every 6000KM (4000 miles).

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Oct 24, 8:00am - #307171 
To repeat, synthetic will not effect a break in period, will not create problems if you switch back & forth between regular & sythetic, or even if you bled it with regular oil, will not hurt seals & so on; because its the same as regular oil, just enhanced. thumbsup

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roxyracer
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Oct 24, 8:46am - #307172 
Originally Posted by Haulin_A_Doo
To repeat, synthetic will not effect a break in period, will not create problems if you switch back & forth between regular & sythetic, or even if you bled it with regular oil, will not hurt seals & so on; because its the same as regular oil, just enhanced. thumbsup


waveWow you guys are good thank you for the good info.

Ok so let me get this right, if you had 3,200 miles and it was your first oil change you would go with synthetic oil correct, straight or blended? Will my Toyota dealer have this or should I bring some? What is the best brand to put in my Celica is it the "Redline"? Is there anything else I need to make sure my Toyota service center does or includes? Please let me know the exact one you would recommend and if you think I should bring it to my appointment.

I really appreciate your help you seem very knowledgeable. My Celi thanks you happywink


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Oct 24, 12:45pm - #307173 
If it was my first oil change, I would take a piece of masking tape or a lable from a label maker & mark your oil cap "5W30 SYNTHETIC", for your first oil change & never put anything else it in. Do an oil change every 4000 miles & your check your oil often over 50,000 miles & make sure your not burning any.

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TaeMachine
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Oct 24, 12:47pm - #307174 
My post is regarding the Mobile 1 vs Castrol Syntec lawsuit in which M1 lost thus allowing Castrol to label their Group III (formed from hydrocracking petroleum) base stocks to be labeled as 'full synthetic.'

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Oct 24, 12:59pm - #307175 
it could how ever create proplems on engines that used "normal oil" and then at a higher mileage switched to full synthetic ( synthetis is more likely to get thru cracks that may have formed in gaskets)


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Oct 24, 1:04pm - #307176 
Originally Posted by drkramm
it could how ever create proplems on engines that used "normal oil" and then at a higher mileage switched to full synthetic ( synthetis is more likely to get thru cracks that may have formed in gaskets)


No.

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Oct 24, 10:45pm - #307177 
Originally Posted by Haulin_A_Doo
If it was my first oil change, I would take a piece of masking tape or a lable from a label maker & mark your oil cap "5W30 SYNTHETIC", for your first oil change & never put anything else it in. Do an oil change every 4000 miles & your check your oil often over 50,000 miles & make sure your not burning any.


Ok sorry to bug you but I trust your advice you missed a few questions. Should I bring the oil? Is there a "best" synthetic or just any? Anything else I should make sure he does or doesn't do should I request anything? Thanks a million!


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Oct 24, 10:56pm - #307178 
unless you would trust your mechanic with your life and a million dollars...watch very closely what he does to your car. Some of those places can be really screwy and shady.

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Oct 25, 1:08am - #307179 
Originally Posted by renfield90
unless you would trust your mechanic with your life and a million dollars...watch very closely what he does to your car. Some of those places can be really screwy and shady.


I agree and I know I'm already paranoid and protective as hell of my Celica. Stressin' already


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Oct 25, 1:37pm - #307180 
Originally Posted by Haulin_A_Doo
Originally Posted by drkramm
it could how ever create proplems on engines that used "normal oil" and then at a higher mileage switched to full synthetic ( synthetis is more likely to get thru cracks that may have formed in gaskets)


No.

um yes
first a link http://www-d0.fnal.gov/~jkrane/cars/synth_survey.html
second i had emailed mobil about this and said hat it usally does not casue leaks but there were motor oils that had additives that casued seals to swell (as well as many off the shelf additives) and thn after the non use of those "swelling motor oils" would casue the engine to leak now this isn't a sythetic proplem per say


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Oct 25, 1:58pm - #307181 
Originally Posted by roxyracer
Originally Posted by renfield90
unless you would trust your mechanic with your life and a million dollars...watch very closely what he does to your car. Some of those places can be really screwy and shady.


I agree and I know I'm already paranoid and protective as hell of my Celica. Stressin' already


if you're stressing now...wait till you have to deal with lift bolts, belt tensioners, various rattling noises, rock chips, door dents, etc... rofl


Originally posted by SKOOF:
yoru such a clown, i wish you lived in nyc, i would love to just give you the beating that youve probably never gotten in your life.
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BReakinDrifTs
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Oct 25, 3:44pm - #307182 
^^ Yeah I know, stressing over oil change rofl Do it yourself if your worried grin

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ExNihilo
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Oct 25, 5:45pm - #307183 
cool

Roxy, personally, I wouldn't take it to a Toyota dealer. My particular dealer here, where I bought my car, is pretty reliable, but in general I wouldn't trust most dealers. My guess is, you probably don't want to do it yourself, so its probably best to do a little extra work and find a shop that can do what you want. Here in Tempe, AZ, where I live, I found a local tire dealer (Purcells) which uses Mobil 1 for all their oil changes. Now, I do all my own changes, but if I WERE to have a shop do it, I'd take it there (I did have them do my wife's SUV there once). Most places will put in whatever oil you want, however, if you bring the oil with you. Also, don't let the shop put in whatever filter they have available, be sure to get a good quality filter (anything but FRAM!). You can swing by a Toyota dealer to get a filter too, no big deal. Always be sure to have a new filter put in with every oil change.

So call around and see what the local shops will do. Most tire and/or lube shops are a heck of a lot quicker compared to scheduling work at a dealership, with sometimes several days advance notice required.

Another important thing, wherever you have the oil changed, be sure to save and file the receipt, along with the receipts for the filter & oil. If you need to get warranty work done on your car sometime, its proof that you've been keeping it maintained. Read over your warranty info; they have something in there about saving receipts.

And hey, don't get stressed wink


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Vlad
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Oct 25, 6:03pm - #307184 
why not fram??

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Oct 25, 6:11pm - #307185 
that's exactly why i'm doing it myself...although my mechanic is a very smart person when it comes to cars and my family knows him personally, I'll still be happier if my car is in someone else's hand fewer times.

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Oct 25, 6:29pm - #307186 
Originally Posted by Vlad
why not fram??


Fram has the lowest area of filtering media of just about any filter. Also, it has a leaky drainback protection valve which will allow dirty oil to leak back into the crankcase when the engine is shut off.

Check this link, and especially compare "element surface area" for the various filters; also read under the Fram entry about the "anti-drainback" problems:


http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilterstudy.html


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hephaestus
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Oct 25, 6:35pm - #307187 
Originally Posted by Haulin_A_Doo
To repeat, synthetic will not effect a break in period, will not create problems if you switch back & forth between regular & sythetic, or even if you bled it with regular oil, will not hurt seals & so on; because its the same as regular oil, just enhanced. thumbsup

I kind off agree with all his statements. Bear with me.
Most people running any car for street use should do the oil change 1000 miles then again at 4000 with the same dealer crap. That's what I've been told and heard stories about people's car's with minute shavings of metal after the first 3000 mile oil change. This being a new car and an oil change with the same stuff.
After the initial 2,000 miles (I give the break in a long time) go for whatever oil you want. Like said before, no one really needs a synthetic during that time or ever really. You want to put a synthetic in to drive from point A to point B. Be my guess and waste your money.
I have run many brands of oil and viscosity on my previous cars. Changing between synthetic or "regular" won't effect anything.
I run synthetic for the obvious reasons. That's my preference.
Most will be great running Toyota fluids for "5000 plus miles" for the life of their cars. That's quoted from my dealership. Running 6,000+ miles or more on synthetic for a daily driver won't harm anything unless you race everyday and push our little engines everyday.
I will stick with the synthetic and switch over to either Royal Purple or Redline for my own racing reasons. Who wants to have a say about that?
Money not being a problem, go Royal Purple or Redline. Not that I think it will matter in your situation with Toyota's fluid or Mobil 1. That's my simple answer. You can't really go wrong unless you don't change the oil in like 20,000 miles.

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TaeMachine
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Oct 26, 8:05pm - #307188 
this supports what you say about break-in oil.

http://www.amsoil.com/faqs/faq1.htm

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Oct 27, 12:50pm - #307189 
thats a lot to read but then what you suggest the best filter is

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Oct 27, 2:04pm - #307190 
Originally Posted by Vlad
thats a lot to read but then what you suggest the best filter is


I really don't know which is "best", but the Toyota stock filters are good, along with TRD. I've decided I'm sticking with those two


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Oct 27, 2:20pm - #307191 
... i got lost in the jonezeses up there, but use mobil 1 r royal purple... wave


Originally posted by A_Bathing_Ape:
I hit, what else, oh plus dome.
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Oct 27, 2:53pm - #307192 
best oil from best to worse
1.amsoil
2.redline
3.royal purple
4.mobil,castrol,pensoil syn.,etc.

best oil filters
1.purolator
2.mobil
3.k and n performance gold (TRD)
4.OEM


quite frankly you use any of these above and you'll be fine. if you just use your car to commute you'll be good. if you like to push hard..then there are other means. grin


Originally posted by SKOOF:
yoru such a clown, i wish you lived in nyc, i would love to just give you the beating that youve probably never gotten in your life.
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