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Lucky_317
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Lucky_317

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2000 Toyota Celica

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Fontana, CA
Sep 30, 10:10pm - #288881 
Trial vs DC sports Header dyno shoot out results. (read this)

OK so now that my stupid car is running again I got to Dyno the DC Sports header.

stupid scanner is being retarded so heres the text version.

**NOTE: This is done on a MUSTANG DYNO not a dyno jet so ignore the numbers and look at the gains. (typical 6% loss due to the 2782lbs load the cars were put under.**

Stock ECU/I/E

170.8 whp @ 8000 rpms
119.1 wtq @ 7000 rpms

Stock ECU/I/E/DC Sports Header

170.5 whp @ 7750 rpms
121.4 wtq @ 7000 rpms

Result - DC made basically same hp only sooner and made 2.3 wtq more.

Now For the Trial Header vs DC Sports Header comparison

00silvergts6spd/ DC Sports

170.5 whp @ 7750 rpms
121.4 wtq @ 7000 rpms

N/A2zz/Trial Header

171.4 whp @ 8250 rpm
119.0 wtq @ 7000 rpm

**The first trial dyno was pretty bad so we used run # 2. DC only got 1 run so we didnt have much choices lol**

From 5300 rpms - 8000 rpms DC > Trial

at 6725 rpms DC > trial by about 15 hp and 15 tq

from 2000 - 5300 the graphs were identical. but trial stops going up and dc doesnt. then trial spikes a lil higher at the end of the run.


My conclusion TPR better get some good gains or we're screwed. Also FYI DC header did better with the power fc. not gonna talk about those numbers though cause we were tuning the trial but not the dc. (was not my tuning day) I just squeezed in 3 runs after we finished his car.


Best 60' 1.959 best 1/4 - 13.7 @ 101mph
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Lucky_317
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Lucky_317

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2000 Toyota Celica

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Fontana, CA
Sep 30, 10:11pm - #288882 
FYI 6% less then a dynojet = a 10HP difference. thumbsup


Best 60' 1.959 best 1/4 - 13.7 @ 101mph
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BaTMaN_4
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BaTMaN_4

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McAllen, TX
Sep 30, 10:27pm - #288883 
Interesting spineyes, so wats the point of getting headers?

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Lucky_317
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Lucky_317

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Fontana, CA
Sep 30, 10:37pm - #288884 
right now? apparently nothing. unless you make it your only mod lol in which case you're lookin 10 hp over stock lol but who does that?

also dont worry cause this info has been forwarded to R&D people over at DC. Not that they will fix anything. but just wanna let you know that they will know the problem wave


Best 60' 1.959 best 1/4 - 13.7 @ 101mph
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celicaTRDgts
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celicaTRDgts

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02 Toyota Celica

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Arizona
Sep 30, 10:41pm - #288885 
sweet..thanks for the info..wontbe buying dc header then wink


[Linked Image]
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cycocelica
daman
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daman
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Washington
Sep 30, 10:49pm - #288886 
wow good info lucky thumbsup

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Lucky_317
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Lucky_317

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Fontana, CA
Sep 30, 10:50pm - #288887 
Unfortunately I was the last person on the planet to get the DC header thanx to DC's lack of follow through. So, I couldn't post these dynos until now.


so far TPR is about the last hope now. if they cant make better power we're screwed rofl


Best 60' 1.959 best 1/4 - 13.7 @ 101mph
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My Sixth Gear
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2003 Toyota Celica

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Chicago, Illinois
Sep 30, 10:53pm - #288888 
go TPR get something going thumbsup


If you want peace... Prepare for War
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cycocelica
daman
cycocelica

daman
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Washington
Sep 30, 11:00pm - #288889 
yeah TPR(blue and easyc) please make a great header!


one that will fit the GT and GTS happywink

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celicajonz
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celicajonz
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2004 Toyota Celica

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*562* , CA
Oct 1, 9:11am - #288890 
...header header header header...tpr(gts>03-04) thumbsup spineyes


Originally posted by A_Bathing_Ape:
I hit, what else, oh plus dome.
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ragingpaseo
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ragingpaseo
2003 blue Toyota Celica
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2003 Toyota Celica

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towson, md
Oct 1, 9:23am - #288891 
good info dude!!! thumbsup
anybody have any numbers on hotshot... confused

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Lucky_317
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Lucky_317

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Fontana, CA
Oct 1, 11:08am - #288892 
doesnt hotshot only do GT's?? so you can rest assured I'll never have that info thumbsup


Best 60' 1.959 best 1/4 - 13.7 @ 101mph
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ct
C'mon & hit me!
ct

C'mon & hit me!
2000 Toyota Celica GTS

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Woodland Hills, CA
Oct 1, 11:14am - #288893 
mike...those results are hurtin'...can you scan them up so we can see the power curves?


Originally posted by SKOOF:
yoru such a clown, i wish you lived in nyc, i would love to just give you the beating that youve probably never gotten in your life.
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Virgilson
TheFilipinoCrew
Virgilson

TheFilipinoCrew
2000 Toyota Celica GT

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Pomona, CA
Oct 1, 11:15am - #288894 
Originally Posted by Lucky_317
doesnt hotshot only do GT's?? so you can rest assured I'll never have that info thumbsup


i think they do

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Easy_C
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Easy_C
2000 Spectra BLUE BABY! Toyota Celica
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2000 Toyota Celica

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Mass
Oct 1, 12:35pm - #288895 
wave


TPR Intake! - Injens high end with AEM's low end and NO BOGGING!
TPR EXHAUST! - Exhaust made 10.5 whp peak and 32 whp at 6300 on my car!!!
http://www.tuningprecisionracing.com/shop
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Lucky_317
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Lucky_317

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Fontana, CA
Oct 1, 3:36pm - #288896 
^^ hey bro, sorry I missed ya when you came down. I think it was your fault my car died rofl since I was planning on drivin all the way out there lol


Best 60' 1.959 best 1/4 - 13.7 @ 101mph
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Blue_Jaggon
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Blue_Jaggon

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Springfield,MA
Oct 1, 5:04pm - #288897 
so dc gains 10hp w/ out mods but with mods it has no gains? and same for trial???

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EuRoBoYGT
black & blue 4 you
EuRoBoYGT

black & blue 4 you
2000 Toyota Celica GT

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El Paso, TX
Oct 1, 5:16pm - #288898 
so DC is better than Trial confused


[Linked Image]
i've been changing but you'll never see me now
now i'm blaming you for everything
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Tru_gts
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Tru_gts
2002 Black Toyota Celica
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Frisco
Oct 1, 7:35pm - #288899 
yep


To my girl Truboo
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My Sixth Gear
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Chicago, Illinois
Oct 1, 9:27pm - #288900 
they both stink with those numbers cry


If you want peace... Prepare for War
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Speed4TheNeed
Caleb
Speed4TheNeed

Caleb
2000 Toyota Celica

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New Orleans, LA
Oct 1, 11:26pm - #288901 
valuable info, mike..thanks for doing the runs thumbsup

kinda sucks to look at the #'s though...you would think exhaust & Intake would slightly improve the header numbers by removing bottlenecks but according to these runs that isn't the case at all. that's kind of curious..i'll definately have to see how tpr does...hopefully that's better but if companies like trial and dc motorsports can't do it, i'd still be skeptical about another company topping them. i guess i/e people will have to start experimenting with custom headers.

oh, and i actually like the mustang dyno better..i like load bearing settings but that could just be me.

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Blue_Bomber
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Blue_Bomber
2000 Spectra Blue Mica Toyota Celica
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Freehold, NJ
Oct 1, 11:36pm - #288902 
Originally Posted by Speed4TheNeed

i'll definately have to see how tpr does...hopefully that's better but if companies like trial and dc motorsports can't do it, i'd still be skeptical about another company topping them.

The difference with the TPR header is that it's a TRUE 4-2-1 design. It's nothing like stock, Trial, DC, or TRD. It will look very similar to this:

Linked Image

That's a Toda header for the RSX-S.

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Speed4TheNeed
Caleb
Speed4TheNeed

Caleb
2000 Toyota Celica

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New Orleans, LA
Oct 1, 11:51pm - #288903 
^^ thanks for the headsup. i'll definately be checking the dyno #'s on this...and i'd also love to see how it does with Intake/exhaust since the above #'s seem to show virtually no gain and slightly more torque.

will your 4-2-1 design really be that different in length though? also, if i remember right, dc motorsports initial header designs were to be 4-2-1 but the wound up going 4-1 instead (like trial and TRD)...i don't know for a fact but i would assume they changed to this because the gains were better.

a lot remains to be seen though, and i'm hoping trp pulls though with a header that does well with Intake/exhaust...because i really don't know anyone who runs around with just a header. virtually every case i've seen with a car using a header also had at least an Intake and exhaust. (obviously this has to do with installation ease & cost..but the point remains)

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Blue_Bomber
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Blue_Bomber
2000 Spectra Blue Mica Toyota Celica
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2000 Toyota Celica

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Freehold, NJ
Oct 2, 12:12am - #288904 
Originally Posted by Speed4TheNeed
will your 4-2-1 design really be that different in length though? also, if i remember right, dc motorsports initial header designs were to be 4-2-1 but the wound up going 4-1 instead (like trial and trd)...i don't know for a fact but i would assume they changed to this because the gains were better.

Yes, it should be about that long, maybe a few inches shorter, maybe a few inches longer (not sure how long the final collector will be, or how long the Toda header is). TRD/Trial/DC made their headers like OEM most likely for sales and CARB approval. It's much easier and cheaper to just install a replacement header, and it cuts down on design research, since all those companies really did was use larger piping and smoother bends while sticking to the same design as stock (TRD even used a stock header flange). It also keeps owners from having to modify their midpipe (and altering the stock cat [CARB part of the equation]), which would attract more customers than a header that needed custom work. TPR has taken it a step further by offering a midpipe, including a CARB approved replacement cat and high flow resonator, that fits their header to solve the problem. This does not make the midpipe CARB certified, but it is legal to replace your cat with it after a certain amount of miles or years, depending on your state.

BTW, the stock header is actually a kind of 4-2-1 design (called a theta pipe), but instead of using individual pipes for the secondaries, they just put a divider plate down the middle of the collector and down a bit of the midpipe to simulate a true 4-2-1 design. Toyota claims it was to get the cat to heat up faster on cold startup, but I've been told by a header designer that that's BS, and it was just done to reduce production costs (which is totally believable).

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Speed4TheNeed
Caleb
Speed4TheNeed

Caleb
2000 Toyota Celica

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New Orleans, LA
Oct 2, 1:27am - #288905 
good points.

i live in louisiana and needless to say we don't have CARB and emissions tests are practically NEVER enforced. (cops and brake tag stations usually only enforce exhaust decibel levels). i'd like to see a header that uses a midpipe without the cat and see what type of gains that would give. thumbsup

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Tru_gts
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Tru_gts
2002 Black Toyota Celica
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Frisco
Oct 2, 2:32pm - #288906 
Is the TRP header going to be a bolt on?


To my girl Truboo
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Blue_Bomber
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Blue_Bomber
2000 Spectra Blue Mica Toyota Celica
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2000 Toyota Celica

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Freehold, NJ
Oct 2, 2:54pm - #288907 
Originally Posted by Tru_gts
Is the TRP header going to be a bolt on?
Pretty much. If you use the TPR midpipe (sold with the TPR header), it's completely bolt on. If you choose to use your stock midpipe, you'll need a muffler shop to shorten it a bit to fit with the header, and add a different flange to connect to the header.

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ikin
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ikin
2000 silver Toyota Celica GT
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2000 Toyota Celica GT

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california
Oct 2, 3:48pm - #288908 
if i buy the headers and the midpipe with the cat will i pass the sniffer, i live in cali by the way. i can pass visual, the most important to me is the sniffer, thanks and keep up the good work thumbsup

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Blue_Bomber
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Blue_Bomber
2000 Spectra Blue Mica Toyota Celica
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2000 Toyota Celica

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Freehold, NJ
Oct 2, 4:16pm - #288909 
Yeah, there's a very good chance it will. The cat is OBDII compliant and CARB approved as an OEM replacement, which means it's fully compatible with all emissions equipment, and should perform just as well as the OEM cat.

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ragingpaseo
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ragingpaseo
2003 blue Toyota Celica
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2003 Toyota Celica

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towson, md
Oct 4, 6:34am - #288910 
hey bomber, is this going to stainless or coated???

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Lucky_317
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Lucky_317

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2000 Toyota Celica

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Fontana, CA
Oct 4, 1:40pm - #288911 
yeah the biggest diff is the design. DC/TRD/trial didnt really do any design work. they took stock design and made the pipes bigger. thst style header is going to be as good as it gets. so if it doesnt do well there is no hope. thumbsup


Best 60' 1.959 best 1/4 - 13.7 @ 101mph
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hector
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hector

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2001 Toyota Celica GT

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san bernardino, california
Oct 4, 1:47pm - #288912 
this really makes me sad because i dont want to put a turbo or a supercharger on my gt, but i was hoping that with simple air flow mods (header, exauhst, Intake) i could at least get 140whp. i guess ill just have to spend it on looks instead of performance...or wait til a turbo isnt 3500 dollars..if that ever happens

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Lucky_317
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Lucky_317

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Fontana, CA
Oct 4, 3:06pm - #288913 
that wont ever happen lol I'm just glad I got it for free rofl


Best 60' 1.959 best 1/4 - 13.7 @ 101mph
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Blue_Bomber
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Blue_Bomber
2000 Spectra Blue Mica Toyota Celica
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Freehold, NJ
Oct 4, 3:34pm - #288914 
Originally Posted by ragingpaseo

hey bomber, is this going to stainless or coated???

It's planned to be both. smile Stainless steel, plus ceramic coating. thumbsup

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Clos
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Clos
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Alexandria, VA
Oct 5, 5:58am - #288915 
thumbsupcant wait

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supra_celica
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supra_celica

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2000 Toyota Celica GTS

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Woodstock, Georgia
Oct 6, 8:58am - #288916 
Keep us posted. Good info. Thanks.


Those who knew me, knew me well.
For those who don't, can go to hell.
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gtspaul2zzge
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gtspaul2zzge
2001 spectra blue Toyota Celica
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2001 Toyota Celica

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california
Oct 7, 5:02pm - #288917 
What is TPR's website address?

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Blue_Bomber
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Blue_Bomber
2000 Spectra Blue Mica Toyota Celica
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Freehold, NJ
Oct 7, 7:14pm - #288918 
No site is up yet for TPR. It'll be up soon, probably when the Intake is re-released. For now, you can either PM Easy_C to buy CAIs and exhausts (and eventually the header), or go to the Group Buy forum of New[/b]Celica[b].org and sign up.

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TimO
The O
TimO

The O
2005 Scion TC

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Hunterdon County, NJ
Oct 8, 9:10am - #288919 
omg i cant wait grin

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celicadragon
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celicadragon

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2002 Toyota Celica

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Pittsburgh, PA
Oct 11, 11:48am - #288920 
the headers that come with the xs turbo, how good are they or could they safley be replaced? confused


respect the gt-s
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QTRMLR_1
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QTRMLR_1

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2002 Toyota Celica

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Los Angeles, CA
Oct 11, 12:24pm - #288921 
^^ "header" (sing.)
who cares how good a turbo header is when you have the power of a turbo...haha j/k tongue

it's ok to ask but most people who are concerned with bolt-on performance only have N/A cars. Nothing wrong with N/A, it's just weak unless you have the Elise-like weight or the money to make 300+ whp like the NHRA Sport Compact All-Motor Pros.

TPR is planning on a N/A race header. Ask for a turbo version and maybe they will make it.


I get my kicks on EC.
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xprohx
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xprohx
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USA
Nov 1, 2:46pm - #288922 
This is really nice info, but where are the graphs? It's one thing that your only concerned about peak numbers, its another not to post plots comparing the three runs. I want to see the power curve. I want to see the low/midrange power the three runs made. And the torque and a/f ratio. Maybe the a/f is not at optimal point and can be tuned for more power? But graphs would be nice.

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Lucky_317
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Lucky_317

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2000 Toyota Celica

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Fontana, CA
Nov 8, 6:26pm - #288923 
the stock graph was the best over all graph. the A/f ratios werent printed but were the same on all the graphs.
with tuning I can bvring a lot more power in but thats not what the purpose of this was lol.


Best 60' 1.959 best 1/4 - 13.7 @ 101mph
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uNiCkE
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uNiCkE
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Santa Clara, CA
Nov 9, 6:27pm - #288924 
hello

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uNiCkE
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uNiCkE
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Santa Clara, CA
Nov 9, 6:28pm - #288925 
hello thumbsup

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Lucky_317
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Lucky_317

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Fontana, CA
Nov 9, 6:49pm - #288926 
um wrong place for an introduction lol try the newbies forum smile thumbsup thumbsup


Best 60' 1.959 best 1/4 - 13.7 @ 101mph
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ghostingcelica
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California
Nov 10, 2:28am - #288927 
lol hello. any idea how much longer for tpr header? i'm very interested

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Lucky_317
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Lucky_317

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Fontana, CA
Nov 10, 9:40am - #288928 
^^again not the right thread to ask. it's not even produced or prototyped yet. thumbsup


Best 60' 1.959 best 1/4 - 13.7 @ 101mph
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J0kk3rr
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J0kk3rr
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Florida
Nov 10, 10:53am - #288929 
what seems to be the problem? Any design shoudl give more power than wahts on there. and the shorty design is for torque so expect the new header from tpr to be MUCH better for horse but probably worse for tq (maybe worse than stock) so what matters to you? the DC offers good gains throughout the band Peak hp is useless you guys. dont look at the header and say omg it only gains 10 hp. Look at the graphs (elsewhere.. and no i dont have a link)


20% of my dream car goal has been reached. I own the celica.
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Lucky_317
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Lucky_317

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Fontana, CA
Nov 10, 11:04am - #288930 
^^ it didnt get gains all over the band and it didnt get 10 peak. it lost most of the band and was a tad lower on peak. wink thats I/E vs I/H/E


Best 60' 1.959 best 1/4 - 13.7 @ 101mph
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