Previous Thread
Next Thread
New Reply
Print Thread
Page 1 2
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,242
Lucky_317
Specialist
Lucky_317 Oct 1, 5:10am - #288881 

Specialist
2000 Toyota Celica

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,242
Fontana, CA
Trial vs DC sports Header dyno shoot out results. (read this)

OK so now that my stupid car is running again I got to Dyno the DC Sports header.

stupid scanner is being retarded so heres the text version.

**NOTE: This is done on a MUSTANG DYNO not a dyno jet so ignore the numbers and look at the gains. (typical 6% loss due to the 2782lbs load the cars were put under.**

Stock ECU/I/E

170.8 whp @ 8000 rpms
119.1 wtq @ 7000 rpms

Stock ECU/I/E/DC Sports Header

170.5 whp @ 7750 rpms
121.4 wtq @ 7000 rpms

Result - DC made basically same hp only sooner and made 2.3 wtq more.

Now For the Trial Header vs DC Sports Header comparison

00silvergts6spd/ DC Sports

170.5 whp @ 7750 rpms
121.4 wtq @ 7000 rpms

N/A2zz/Trial Header

171.4 whp @ 8250 rpm
119.0 wtq @ 7000 rpm

**The first trial dyno was pretty bad so we used run # 2. DC only got 1 run so we didnt have much choices lol**

From 5300 rpms - 8000 rpms DC > Trial

at 6725 rpms DC > trial by about 15 hp and 15 tq

from 2000 - 5300 the graphs were identical. but trial stops going up and dc doesnt. then trial spikes a lil higher at the end of the run.


My conclusion TPR better get some good gains or we're screwed. Also FYI DC header did better with the power fc. not gonna talk about those numbers though cause we were tuning the trial but not the dc. (was not my tuning day) I just squeezed in 3 runs after we finished his car.

Best 60' 1.959 best 1/4 - 13.7 @ 101mph
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,242
Lucky_317
Specialist
Lucky_317 Oct 1, 5:11am - #288882 

Specialist
2000 Toyota Celica

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,242
Fontana, CA
FYI 6% less then a dynojet = a 10HP difference. thumbsup

Best 60' 1.959 best 1/4 - 13.7 @ 101mph
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 753
BaTMaN_4
Senior Member
BaTMaN_4 Oct 1, 5:27am - #288883 

Senior Member
2002 Toyota Celica GT

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 753
McAllen, TX
Interesting spineyes, so wats the point of getting headers?
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,242
Lucky_317
Specialist
Lucky_317 Oct 1, 5:37am - #288884 

Specialist
2000 Toyota Celica

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,242
Fontana, CA
right now? apparently nothing. unless you make it your only mod lol in which case you're lookin 10 hp over stock lol but who does that?

also dont worry cause this info has been forwarded to R&D people over at DC. Not that they will fix anything. but just wanna let you know that they will know the problem wave

Best 60' 1.959 best 1/4 - 13.7 @ 101mph
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,926
celicaTRDgts
Specialist
celicaTRDgts Oct 1, 5:41am - #288885 

Specialist
02 Toyota Celica

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,926
Arizona
sweet..thanks for the info..wontbe buying dc header then wink

[Linked Image]
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,873
cycocelica
daman
cycocelica Oct 1, 5:49am - #288886 

daman
2000 Toyota Celica GT

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,873
Washington
wow good info lucky thumbsup
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,242
Lucky_317
Specialist
Lucky_317 Oct 1, 5:50am - #288887 

Specialist
2000 Toyota Celica

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,242
Fontana, CA
Unfortunately I was the last person on the planet to get the DC header thanx to DC's lack of follow through. So, I couldn't post these dynos until now.


so far TPR is about the last hope now. if they cant make better power we're screwed rofl

Best 60' 1.959 best 1/4 - 13.7 @ 101mph
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,304
My Sixth Gear
Specialist
My Sixth Gear Oct 1, 5:53am - #288888 
2003 Spectra Blue Mica Toyota Celica
Specialist
2003 Toyota Celica

Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,304
Chicago, Illinois
go TPR get something going thumbsup

If you want peace... Prepare for War
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,873
cycocelica
daman
cycocelica Oct 1, 6:00am - #288889 

daman
2000 Toyota Celica GT

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,873
Washington
yeah TPR(blue and easyc) please make a great header!


one that will fit the GT and GTS happywink
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 896
celicajonz
Senior Member
celicajonz Oct 1, 4:11pm - #288890 
Senior Member
2004 Toyota Celica

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 896
*562* , CA
...header header header header...tpr(gts>03-04) thumbsup spineyes

Originally posted by A_Bathing_Ape:
I hit, what else, oh plus dome.
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 2,672
ragingpaseo
Specialist
ragingpaseo Oct 1, 4:23pm - #288891 
2003 blue Toyota Celica
Specialist
2003 Toyota Celica

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 2,672
towson, md
good info dude!!! thumbsup
anybody have any numbers on hotshot... confused
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,242
Lucky_317
Specialist
Lucky_317 Oct 1, 6:08pm - #288892 

Specialist
2000 Toyota Celica

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,242
Fontana, CA
doesnt hotshot only do GT's?? so you can rest assured I'll never have that info thumbsup

Best 60' 1.959 best 1/4 - 13.7 @ 101mph
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,139
ct
C'mon & hit me!
ct Oct 1, 6:14pm - #288893 

C'mon & hit me!
2000 Toyota Celica GTS

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,139
Woodland Hills, CA
mike...those results are hurtin'...can you scan them up so we can see the power curves?

Originally posted by SKOOF:
yoru such a clown, i wish you lived in nyc, i would love to just give you the beating that youve probably never gotten in your life.
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,278
Virgilson
TheFilipinoCrew
Virgilson Oct 1, 6:15pm - #288894 

TheFilipinoCrew
2000 Toyota Celica GT

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,278
Pomona, CA
Originally Posted by Lucky_317
doesnt hotshot only do GT's?? so you can rest assured I'll never have that info thumbsup


i think they do
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 476
Easy_C
Senior Member
Easy_C Oct 1, 7:35pm - #288895 
2000 Spectra BLUE BABY! Toyota Celica
Senior Member
2000 Toyota Celica

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 476
Mass
wave

TPR Intake! - Injens high end with AEM's low end and NO BOGGING!
TPR EXHAUST! - Exhaust made 10.5 whp peak and 32 whp at 6300 on my car!!!
http://www.tuningprecisionracing.com/shop
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,242
Lucky_317
Specialist
Lucky_317 Oct 1, 10:36pm - #288896 

Specialist
2000 Toyota Celica

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,242
Fontana, CA
^^ hey bro, sorry I missed ya when you came down. I think it was your fault my car died rofl since I was planning on drivin all the way out there lol

Best 60' 1.959 best 1/4 - 13.7 @ 101mph
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 493
Blue_Jaggon
Senior Member
Blue_Jaggon Oct 2, 12:04am - #288897 

Senior Member
2000 Toyota Celica

Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 493
Springfield,MA
so dc gains 10hp w/ out mods but with mods it has no gains? and same for trial???
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,233
EuRoBoYGT
black & blue 4 you
EuRoBoYGT Oct 2, 12:16am - #288898 

black & blue 4 you
2000 Toyota Celica GT

Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,233
El Paso, TX
so DC is better than Trial confused

[Linked Image]
i've been changing but you'll never see me now
now i'm blaming you for everything
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 733
Tru_gts
Senior Member
Tru_gts Oct 2, 2:35am - #288899 
2002 Black Toyota Celica
Senior Member
2002 Toyota Celica

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 733
Frisco
yep

To my girl Truboo
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,304
My Sixth Gear
Specialist
My Sixth Gear Oct 2, 4:27am - #288900 
2003 Spectra Blue Mica Toyota Celica
Specialist
2003 Toyota Celica

Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,304
Chicago, Illinois
they both stink with those numbers cry

If you want peace... Prepare for War
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,372
Speed4TheNeed
Caleb
Speed4TheNeed Oct 2, 6:26am - #288901 

Caleb
2000 Toyota Celica

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,372
New Orleans, LA
valuable info, mike..thanks for doing the runs thumbsup

kinda sucks to look at the #'s though...you would think exhaust & Intake would slightly improve the header numbers by removing bottlenecks but according to these runs that isn't the case at all. that's kind of curious..i'll definately have to see how tpr does...hopefully that's better but if companies like trial and dc motorsports can't do it, i'd still be skeptical about another company topping them. i guess i/e people will have to start experimenting with custom headers.

oh, and i actually like the mustang dyno better..i like load bearing settings but that could just be me.
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 744
Blue_Bomber
Senior Member
Blue_Bomber Oct 2, 6:36am - #288902 
2000 Spectra Blue Mica Toyota Celica
Senior Member
2000 Toyota Celica

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 744
Freehold, NJ
Originally Posted by Speed4TheNeed

i'll definately have to see how tpr does...hopefully that's better but if companies like trial and dc motorsports can't do it, i'd still be skeptical about another company topping them.

The difference with the TPR header is that it's a TRUE 4-2-1 design. It's nothing like stock, Trial, DC, or TRD. It will look very similar to this:

Linked Image

That's a Toda header for the RSX-S.
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,372
Speed4TheNeed
Caleb
Speed4TheNeed Oct 2, 6:51am - #288903 

Caleb
2000 Toyota Celica

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,372
New Orleans, LA
^^ thanks for the headsup. i'll definately be checking the dyno #'s on this...and i'd also love to see how it does with Intake/exhaust since the above #'s seem to show virtually no gain and slightly more torque.

will your 4-2-1 design really be that different in length though? also, if i remember right, dc motorsports initial header designs were to be 4-2-1 but the wound up going 4-1 instead (like trial and TRD)...i don't know for a fact but i would assume they changed to this because the gains were better.

a lot remains to be seen though, and i'm hoping trp pulls though with a header that does well with Intake/exhaust...because i really don't know anyone who runs around with just a header. virtually every case i've seen with a car using a header also had at least an Intake and exhaust. (obviously this has to do with installation ease & cost..but the point remains)
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 744
Blue_Bomber
Senior Member
Blue_Bomber Oct 2, 7:12am - #288904 
2000 Spectra Blue Mica Toyota Celica
Senior Member
2000 Toyota Celica

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 744
Freehold, NJ
Originally Posted by Speed4TheNeed
will your 4-2-1 design really be that different in length though? also, if i remember right, dc motorsports initial header designs were to be 4-2-1 but the wound up going 4-1 instead (like trial and trd)...i don't know for a fact but i would assume they changed to this because the gains were better.

Yes, it should be about that long, maybe a few inches shorter, maybe a few inches longer (not sure how long the final collector will be, or how long the Toda header is). TRD/Trial/DC made their headers like OEM most likely for sales and CARB approval. It's much easier and cheaper to just install a replacement header, and it cuts down on design research, since all those companies really did was use larger piping and smoother bends while sticking to the same design as stock (TRD even used a stock header flange). It also keeps owners from having to modify their midpipe (and altering the stock cat [CARB part of the equation]), which would attract more customers than a header that needed custom work. TPR has taken it a step further by offering a midpipe, including a CARB approved replacement cat and high flow resonator, that fits their header to solve the problem. This does not make the midpipe CARB certified, but it is legal to replace your cat with it after a certain amount of miles or years, depending on your state.

BTW, the stock header is actually a kind of 4-2-1 design (called a theta pipe), but instead of using individual pipes for the secondaries, they just put a divider plate down the middle of the collector and down a bit of the midpipe to simulate a true 4-2-1 design. Toyota claims it was to get the cat to heat up faster on cold startup, but I've been told by a header designer that that's BS, and it was just done to reduce production costs (which is totally believable).
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,372
Speed4TheNeed
Caleb
Speed4TheNeed Oct 2, 8:27am - #288905 

Caleb
2000 Toyota Celica

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,372
New Orleans, LA
good points.

i live in louisiana and needless to say we don't have CARB and emissions tests are practically NEVER enforced. (cops and brake tag stations usually only enforce exhaust decibel levels). i'd like to see a header that uses a midpipe without the cat and see what type of gains that would give. thumbsup
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 733
Tru_gts
Senior Member
Tru_gts Oct 2, 9:32pm - #288906 
2002 Black Toyota Celica
Senior Member
2002 Toyota Celica

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 733
Frisco
Is the TRP header going to be a bolt on?

To my girl Truboo
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 744
Blue_Bomber
Senior Member
Blue_Bomber Oct 2, 9:54pm - #288907 
2000 Spectra Blue Mica Toyota Celica
Senior Member
2000 Toyota Celica

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 744
Freehold, NJ
Originally Posted by Tru_gts
Is the TRP header going to be a bolt on?
Pretty much. If you use the TPR midpipe (sold with the TPR header), it's completely bolt on. If you choose to use your stock midpipe, you'll need a muffler shop to shorten it a bit to fit with the header, and add a different flange to connect to the header.
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 615
ikin
Senior Member
ikin Oct 2, 10:48pm - #288908 
2000 silver Toyota Celica GT
Senior Member
2000 Toyota Celica GT

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 615
california
if i buy the headers and the midpipe with the cat will i pass the sniffer, i live in cali by the way. i can pass visual, the most important to me is the sniffer, thanks and keep up the good work thumbsup
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 744
Blue_Bomber
Senior Member
Blue_Bomber Oct 2, 11:16pm - #288909 
2000 Spectra Blue Mica Toyota Celica
Senior Member
2000 Toyota Celica

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 744
Freehold, NJ
Yeah, there's a very good chance it will. The cat is OBDII compliant and CARB approved as an OEM replacement, which means it's fully compatible with all emissions equipment, and should perform just as well as the OEM cat.
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 2,672
ragingpaseo
Specialist
ragingpaseo Oct 4, 1:34pm - #288910 
2003 blue Toyota Celica
Specialist
2003 Toyota Celica

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 2,672
towson, md
hey bomber, is this going to stainless or coated???
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,242
Lucky_317
Specialist
Lucky_317 Oct 4, 8:40pm - #288911 

Specialist
2000 Toyota Celica

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,242
Fontana, CA
yeah the biggest diff is the design. DC/TRD/trial didnt really do any design work. they took stock design and made the pipes bigger. thst style header is going to be as good as it gets. so if it doesnt do well there is no hope. thumbsup

Best 60' 1.959 best 1/4 - 13.7 @ 101mph
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 647
hector
Senior Member
hector Oct 4, 8:47pm - #288912 

Senior Member
2001 Toyota Celica GT

Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 647
san bernardino, california
this really makes me sad because i dont want to put a turbo or a supercharger on my gt, but i was hoping that with simple air flow mods (header, exauhst, Intake) i could at least get 140whp. i guess ill just have to spend it on looks instead of performance...or wait til a turbo isnt 3500 dollars..if that ever happens
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,242
Lucky_317
Specialist
Lucky_317 Oct 4, 10:06pm - #288913 

Specialist
2000 Toyota Celica

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,242
Fontana, CA
that wont ever happen lol I'm just glad I got it for free rofl

Best 60' 1.959 best 1/4 - 13.7 @ 101mph
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 744
Blue_Bomber
Senior Member
Blue_Bomber Oct 4, 10:34pm - #288914 
2000 Spectra Blue Mica Toyota Celica
Senior Member
2000 Toyota Celica

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 744
Freehold, NJ
Originally Posted by ragingpaseo

hey bomber, is this going to stainless or coated???

It's planned to be both. smile Stainless steel, plus ceramic coating. thumbsup
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,038
Clos
Specialist
Clos Oct 5, 12:58pm - #288915 
2000 Spectra Blue Toyota Celica
Specialist
2000 Toyota Celica

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,038
Alexandria, VA
thumbsupcant wait
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 447
supra_celica
Senior Member
supra_celica Oct 6, 3:58pm - #288916 

Senior Member
2000 Toyota Celica GTS

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 447
Woodstock, Georgia
Keep us posted. Good info. Thanks.

Those who knew me, knew me well.
For those who don't, can go to hell.
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 60
gtspaul2zzge
Member
gtspaul2zzge Oct 8, 12:02am - #288917 
2001 spectra blue Toyota Celica
Member
2001 Toyota Celica

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 60
california
What is TPR's website address?
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 744
Blue_Bomber
Senior Member
Blue_Bomber Oct 8, 2:14am - #288918 
2000 Spectra Blue Mica Toyota Celica
Senior Member
2000 Toyota Celica

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 744
Freehold, NJ
No site is up yet for TPR. It'll be up soon, probably when the Intake is re-released. For now, you can either PM Easy_C to buy CAIs and exhausts (and eventually the header), or go to the Group Buy forum of New[/b]Celica[b].org and sign up.
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 795
TimO
The O
TimO Oct 8, 4:10pm - #288919 

The O
2005 Scion TC

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 795
Hunterdon County, NJ
omg i cant wait grin
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,337
celicadragon
Specialist
celicadragon Oct 11, 6:48pm - #288920 

Specialist
2002 Toyota Celica

Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,337
Pittsburgh, PA
the headers that come with the xs turbo, how good are they or could they safley be replaced? confused

respect the gt-s
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,376
QTRMLR_1
Specialist
QTRMLR_1 Oct 11, 7:24pm - #288921 

Specialist
2002 Toyota Celica

Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,376
Los Angeles, CA
^^ "header" (sing.)
who cares how good a turbo header is when you have the power of a turbo...haha j/k tongue

it's ok to ask but most people who are concerned with bolt-on performance only have N/A cars. Nothing wrong with N/A, it's just weak unless you have the Elise-like weight or the money to make 300+ whp like the NHRA Sport Compact All-Motor Pros.

TPR is planning on a N/A race header. Ask for a turbo version and maybe they will make it.

I get my kicks on EC.
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 32
xprohx
Member
xprohx Nov 1, 9:46pm - #288922 
Member

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 32
USA
This is really nice info, but where are the graphs? It's one thing that your only concerned about peak numbers, its another not to post plots comparing the three runs. I want to see the power curve. I want to see the low/midrange power the three runs made. And the torque and a/f ratio. Maybe the a/f is not at optimal point and can be tuned for more power? But graphs would be nice.
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,242
Lucky_317
Specialist
Lucky_317 Nov 9, 1:26am - #288923 

Specialist
2000 Toyota Celica

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,242
Fontana, CA
the stock graph was the best over all graph. the A/f ratios werent printed but were the same on all the graphs.
with tuning I can bvring a lot more power in but thats not what the purpose of this was lol.

Best 60' 1.959 best 1/4 - 13.7 @ 101mph
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 15
uNiCkE
Member
uNiCkE Nov 10, 1:27am - #288924 
Member

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 15
Santa Clara, CA
hello
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 15
uNiCkE
Member
uNiCkE Nov 10, 1:28am - #288925 
Member

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 15
Santa Clara, CA
hello thumbsup
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,242
Lucky_317
Specialist
Lucky_317 Nov 10, 1:49am - #288926 

Specialist
2000 Toyota Celica

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,242
Fontana, CA
um wrong place for an introduction lol try the newbies forum smile thumbsup thumbsup

Best 60' 1.959 best 1/4 - 13.7 @ 101mph
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,787
ghostingcelica
Specialist
ghostingcelica Nov 10, 9:28am - #288927 
2000 Black Toyota Celica GT
Specialist
2000 Toyota Celica GT

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,787
California
lol hello. any idea how much longer for tpr header? i'm very interested
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,242
Lucky_317
Specialist
Lucky_317 Nov 10, 4:40pm - #288928 

Specialist
2000 Toyota Celica

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,242
Fontana, CA
^^again not the right thread to ask. it's not even produced or prototyped yet. thumbsup

Best 60' 1.959 best 1/4 - 13.7 @ 101mph
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 22
J0kk3rr
Member
J0kk3rr Nov 10, 5:53pm - #288929 
2000 Red Toyota Celica GT
Member
2000 Toyota Celica GT

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 22
Florida
what seems to be the problem? Any design shoudl give more power than wahts on there. and the shorty design is for torque so expect the new header from tpr to be MUCH better for horse but probably worse for tq (maybe worse than stock) so what matters to you? the DC offers good gains throughout the band Peak hp is useless you guys. dont look at the header and say omg it only gains 10 hp. Look at the graphs (elsewhere.. and no i dont have a link)

20% of my dream car goal has been reached. I own the celica.
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,242
Lucky_317
Specialist
Lucky_317 Nov 10, 6:04pm - #288930 

Specialist
2000 Toyota Celica

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,242
Fontana, CA
^^ it didnt get gains all over the band and it didnt get 10 peak. it lost most of the band and was a tad lower on peak. wink thats I/E vs I/H/E

Best 60' 1.959 best 1/4 - 13.7 @ 101mph
Page 1 2
Join the conversation - Register now or Sign in to add your comment


Moderated by  isaac 

Customize Your Toyota CelicaPrivacy Policy · About · Contact
CelicaHobby.com is an independent Toyota Celica enthusiast website. CelicaHobby.com is not sponsored by or affiliated with Toyota Motor Sales, USA, Inc. in any way. The Toyota and Celica names and logos are trademarks owned by Toyota Motor Sales, USA, Inc.
© CelicaHobby.com, 2001-2016