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ikin
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ikin Aug 20, 1:20am - #254438 
2000 silver Toyota Celica GT
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california
Greddy E-Manage V.S. Apexi Fc?

which one is better? what are the advantages of each, are either smog legal? Thanks rice
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ikin
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ikin Aug 20, 1:26am - #254439 
2000 silver Toyota Celica GT
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california
is the GReddy Profec e-01 combined with the Greddy E-Manage?
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ikin
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ikin Aug 20, 1:55am - #254440 
2000 silver Toyota Celica GT
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california
this thread is going nowhere
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RetroJ84
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RetroJ84 Aug 20, 2:09am - #254441 
2002 Silver Toyota Celica GT
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confused

"You're not how much money you have in the bank. You're not the car you drive. You're not the contents of your wallet. You're not your f------ khakis. You're the all-singing, all-dancing crap of the world."
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xvtxboi508x
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xvtxboi508x Aug 20, 4:18am - #254442 

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yeah wat the hell power fc is like 950 why not by greddy and get a few fuel rails and shit
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ikin
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ikin Aug 20, 4:33am - #254443 
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thats exactly what im thinkin, but i wanna know if i lose out on sometihing if i get the E-manage
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QTRMLR_1
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QTRMLR_1 Aug 20, 11:06am - #254444 

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e-manage CAN be smog legal..meaning it is possible to pass a functional test and tailpipe test with it installed and tuned (not technically legal to use in some states or all maybe...but then again they'll never know unless you tell them). PFC cannot be smog legal. It won't pass the OBD functional test. Automatic fail. You can just take out the PFC and put your stock ecu back in (2 minute job) and your car will probably pass as long as your other upgrades are CARB approved. give your stock ecu some time and distance to adjust before you test...say at least 40 miles in various driving conditions to be excellent.

If you plan on Turboing your Celica and if you have smog tests in your area, you might lean toward the e-manage so you have a shot at passing smog. I highly doubt the stock ecu (you plugged back in after you took out the PFC) will adjust very well to a Turbo. Your engine may knock and blow up. cry

Some have said or implied it is easier to tune a Turbo Celica with the e-manage than the PFC. I don't know how true this is. Some *others* will probably say the PFC just takes more skill to tune correctly...ouch hehe. But the XS engineering Turbo kit does come with a PFC. But then again the same *others* may say that XS sucks and can't tune shit haha.

PFC has higher resolution than the e-manage on the fuel and ignition maps. 20x20 vs 16x16. On PFC you can adjust the vvti and on the e-manage you can't. On at GTS with the PFC you can adjust lift engagement but I don't think it's useful to be able to do this.

PFC is nicer for the GTS esp the 02 since you can adjust the rev limit.

PFC has no OBD compatibilty so it won't give OBD error codes. But as before, you can just plug your stock back in as long as you haven't boosted your car. e-manage is OBD compatible since e-manage is just a piggyback on the stock ecu.

Since PFC is a standalone you can directly monitor knock and other engine data through the Commander or Datalogit kit (not available anytime soon unfortunately). With the e-manage you would have to buy an expensive top-end $400-$500 scanner that monitors engine parameters like knock as well as giving you OBD codes.

Since the Datalogit for the PFC is not available soon, you might consider going with the e-manage since the support software is always available.

e-manage is about $850 cheaper than the PFC taking into account software for both (yes the FCDatalogit which you can't get). You can spend the $850 you save by going with the e-manage on installation of the e-manage and dyno-tuning it.

Whether you go with the PFC or e-manage have them dyno-tuned from the start and after each upgrade. Of course you can risk it with the base maps for either...but I wouldn't and others wouldn't.

PFC is easy to install yourself whereas the e-manage requires electrical connections in tapping in to the stock harness. You may have to pay someone to install the e-manage, increasing the cost.

On the webpages of some tracks in SoCal I see that they mention that no "computers" are allowed. I don't know exactly what they mean...like if this includes fuel computers or laptops etc. They can't find a PFC since it just replaces the stock ecu, but if they did search they would find the e-manage unless you have it exceptionally well hidden (but then it would be hard to access to plug your laptop into it). I haven't been to the SoCal tracks yet b/c I just moved here and am getting my car ready.

one more...for the e-manage + support software tool you need a laptop. For the PFC you should use a laptop with the Datalogit (which you can't get), but you can get by with the Commander.

There are probably many other issues I am forgetting to mention at the moment zzzzzzzz zzzzz...please others chime in now...

if you're curious...
I have an 02 GTS w/o the 8400 rpm rev limit conversion. I bought the e-manage, changed my mind, sold it, and bought the PFC. I was going to buy the Datalogit until I found out I couldn't get it right away. So now I am going to get the Commander until I can get the Datalogit. BTW I haven't installed the PFC yet because I am that worried about racing my engine without knowing how serious my knock is. I can't risk it. you don't know how much torture it is to have the PFC laying around like a loose, hot, naked, chick and having to resist doing anyting with it. cry I love the thought of using the PFC, but I love my Celi even more. smile

I get my kicks on EC.
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ikin
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ikin Aug 20, 5:35pm - #254445 
2000 silver Toyota Celica GT
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thanks a lot man, ist just that im going NA and im gonna get Catcams for the gt, exhaust and Intake. if i get the exhaust witht he Intake cam i need to adjust the vvti since the vvti deals with the Intake i think or vice versa. so there is no way to change the vvti with the E-manage. can you aslso raise the rev limiter on te gt with the e-manage?
cant you buy the fuel ignition maps for the E-manage?
and one last question, can i use a computer instaed of a laptop? confused

Thanks a lot man, i knew you would be the only one to write up on this topic thumbsup
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ikin
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ikin Aug 20, 5:35pm - #254446 
2000 silver Toyota Celica GT
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by the way, do they have OBD requirments in vegas????? when it comes to passing smog?
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Lucky_317
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Lucky_317 Aug 20, 6:20pm - #254447 

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CA is the most strict out of anywhere on the planet almost lol

I have never used the emanage personally or seen it in person so I can't really tell ya how good or bad it is.

the power fc is not something you wanna get if A) you're worried about how much $$ youre about to spend B) If you dont like spending a lot on dyno time dont get pfc C) if you want a quick and easy solution then dont get the pfc

theres quite a bit more functionality with the pfc none of which I'm gonna go over because qtr's post had a lot of te info there smile but like he said datalogit is on an indefinite backorder. nobody knows when they will be available again.

Best 60' 1.959 best 1/4 - 13.7 @ 101mph
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ikin
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ikin Aug 20, 6:22pm - #254448 
2000 silver Toyota Celica GT
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thanks lucky_317, at least some people r posting! rofl
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Lucky_317
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Lucky_317 Aug 20, 6:24pm - #254449 

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yeah I havent been posting much lately so I get on when I can. lol

Best 60' 1.959 best 1/4 - 13.7 @ 101mph
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QTRMLR_1
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QTRMLR_1 Aug 21, 1:48am - #254450 

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Originally Posted by ikin
by the way, do they have OBD requirments in vegas????? when it comes to passing smog?


ummm...I didn't have to smog in vegas since I moved and changed my registration several months ahead of when I would have had to smog. I think it is just the OBD functional test and no tailpipe test on a dyno. My friend with a GT in vegas even had an ebay Intake on his car and they passed him. The dyno test which they use in Cali is considered hardcore. And not only is it a dyno test but you have to have relatively low emissions compared to the requirements in other states that use the dyno and tailpipe test.

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QTRMLR_1 Aug 21, 1:58am - #254451 

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Originally Posted by ikin
is the GReddy Profec e-01 combined with the Greddy E-Manage?


the profec is something separate you have to buy...oops I just realized I posted last night when I was half awake that you have to have a laptop with the e-manage. THIS IS NOT TRUE. You can use the profec to switch between two different maps on the fly, which is usually applied to a Turbo application with different boost settings (that's what the e-manage is known for anyway). But just like the Datalogit for the PFC, the support software tool is better for tuning than the profec on the e-manage.

If you don't mind going through the trouble you can use a desktop computer with your e-manage but you have to move your desktop into your garage next to your car and provide a power source for the desktop. And then you wouldn't be able to tune on the fly on a dyno or you wouldn't be able to use the map trace function. OK, if you really are CRAZY you can use a top-end, high-wattage power inverter and put your desktop inside your car. I don't recommend this. If I were to try this, my computer would be thru my windshield in a couple of minutes.

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QTRMLR_1
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QTRMLR_1 Aug 21, 2:15am - #254452 

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MWR's website has good info on the profec (which I think is just copied from GReddy's site):

http://monkeywrenchracing.com/greddy_profec_e_01.html

the info states that every option programmable with a laptop and the support software can be programmed with the profec. IMO, the support software is easier to tune with because it is simply easier to change data on a laptop with a mouse and a bigger color screen.

I get my kicks on EC.
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ikin
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ikin Aug 21, 2:35am - #254453 
2000 silver Toyota Celica GT
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so should i get hte profec if i want to tune my car with aftermarket exhaust and Intake cams (adjust the vvti) and raise the rev limiter?

and what does the OBD functional test consist of? thanks man thumbsup
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QTRMLR_1
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QTRMLR_1 Aug 21, 8:05am - #254454 

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* the e-manage is univeral for pretty much all EFI cars.
you can't adjust Toyota vvti. It's mainly fuel and
ignition, and boost control for Turbos. if you want to
adjust vvti get PFC + Commander or wait for the HydraEMS
the arrival of which is even more questionable than the
FCDatalogit kit. Go look on that *other* site for info
on the HydraEMS in "ECUtuning".
* you can't raise the rev limit either. contact C2Gas
about the crystal mod to remove the rev limit.
* the profec is ok if you want something in your car to
make adjustments at all times and if you don't have a
laptop. It's $536...or you can just save up and spend
a little more and get a laptop which you can use for
many other things than just for your car.
* In CA, the OBD functional test just mainly makes sure
your ecu is not reporting any errors with any of your
emissions systems and that at least 5* of your
diagnostic tests come back ok (*according to a smog
tech at one place).
If you have a CEL you fail automatically. You
can still fail w/o the CEL if you have a pending code or
less than 5 of your diagnostic tests run. It takes time
and miles after you reset your ecu with a scanner for
the diagnostics to run and complete. So I have no idea
why you passed ikin since you said you reset your ecu
right before your test. hmmm..maybe it isn't true that
you need at least 5, but that's what a smog technician
said when I called him. maybe it varies by station but
I would think the test is universal countywide. What
county did you test in? Anyway having 5 tests run and
having no codes generated, is a good indicator of
success at passing the functional test. You still have
to pass the tailpipe test.

I get my kicks on EC.
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ikin
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ikin Aug 21, 3:29pm - #254455 
2000 silver Toyota Celica GT
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i took the test in Mission Hills on sepu;veda and chatsworth, Lees automotive shop, he just put the sensor in the exhasut without doing a visual inspection and passed. with just the apexi controller can you adjust the rev limiter and the vvti? sorry for so many questions, its because when i build my motor i need to adjust the computer since it wont be able to accept aftermarket cams!
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QTRMLR_1
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QTRMLR_1 Aug 21, 11:54pm - #254456 

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^^ wow!!! that's the place to go to for peeps in Cali. That place certainly cares about "peformance". smile I would remove that post if you can, and have people PM you if they want recommendations on a smog station where the customer service is VERY good. wink

Since I don't have the Commander in my hands yet, I'm not completely sure on your q's, so I'll wait for Lucky to reply.

If you're not going Turbo in Cali, I would say the PowerFC is the way to go if it's within your budget. Even considering that, I'd say it's worth saving up for.

I get my kicks on EC.
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ikin
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ikin Aug 22, 12:32am - #254457 
2000 silver Toyota Celica GT
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its not like he did anything illegal, he knew i already had an axle back and i did pass square and fair, its a good place to go since they are really cheap thats why im puttin out the word thumbsup
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QTRMLR_1
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QTRMLR_1 Aug 22, 7:13am - #254458 

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...wasn't questioning you at all..just thought no visual inspection was odd here in smoggy SoCal.

I get my kicks on EC.
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ikin
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ikin Aug 22, 5:09pm - #254459 
2000 silver Toyota Celica GT
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grin
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Sancho
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Sancho Aug 22, 6:58pm - #254460 

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San Diego, CA
Apexi FC thumbsup I don't know much about Power FCs, but i've heard better things about Apexi's. Didn't Greddy just come out with theirs?

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