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Anonymous Aug 19, 3:57am - #253359 
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better to boost GT or GTS

Alright so we all have heard that the GT is better to boost because its low compression. But i plan on either building up my GT engine or swapping it out for a GTS and building its engine. Im gonna Turbo whatever i get running a safe amount of boost because it would still be my daily driver so dont wanna go over board. Im assuming the GTS just cause it has more HP right off the bat and benefits of lift also it is a 1.8L and will save me from from boring (sp?) my GT engine out.
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slidr Aug 19, 3:59am - #253360 

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The GT makes more power PERCENTAGE WISE, but with the same amount of boost applied to a GTS, the GTS will be faster.

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Anonymous Aug 19, 4:00am - #253361 
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Originally Posted by slidr
The GT makes more power PERCENTAGE WISE, but with the same amount of boost applied to a GTS, the GTS will be faster.
yea i know that but which engine would handle the boost better with a built engine.
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ikin Aug 19, 4:02am - #253362 
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the gt since it has a lower compression ratio thumbsup

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Anonymous Aug 19, 4:15am - #253363 
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Originally Posted by ikin
the gt since it has a lower compression ratio thumbsup
but couldnt i get a piston and sleeve kit for the GTS and change it to a 8.8:1 comp ratio and boost it? Sultan/Azzkicker come on and help me out.
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Simple Aug 19, 4:19am - #253364 

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i would imagine a lot more tuning would be needed for the GTS to get the a/f ratio right when it hits lift.

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ikin Aug 19, 5:18am - #253365 
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yes definetly, you can run higher boost but if ur talking about the sleeves, i hope you r talking about the 2 litre kit, get new rods also. any question just ask me, azzkikr or sultan
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ikin Aug 19, 5:20am - #253366 
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wait do you haev a gt or gts? they have high and low compression for both models at monkeywrenchracing.com thumbsup

hope that helps rice

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Anonymous Aug 19, 5:25am - #253367 
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i have a GT i know i can lower the compression on both. But what engine is actually better for boost. Does it really make a difference cause i could run both with 8:1.1 compression and i got bore and sleeve the GT up to a 1.8. The only difference i see is in lift.
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ikin Aug 19, 5:30am - #253368 
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im sorry im lost, what do you wanna know exactly? stock to stock the gt can handle more boost since it has a lower compression ratio than a gts, i hope that answers it if not lets try agian rofl

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Anonymous Aug 19, 5:34am - #253369 
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Aight so pretty much i can get either engine to be a 1.8 liter with 8:1:1 compression. The only difference is that the GTS would still have Lift. So pretty much it boils down to is it better to have lift or not when running potentially high amounts of boost.
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Haulin_A_Doo Aug 19, 5:35am - #253370 
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You can always use power FC to turn lift of.
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ikin Aug 19, 5:36am - #253371 
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do you plan to bore the gts if you swap it? confused

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Anonymous Aug 19, 5:38am - #253372 
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Originally Posted by ikin
do you plan to bore the gts if you swap it? confused
I dont think you can bore a GTS engine confused sidewalls are to small. Really you can turn off lift with with the PFC? I didnt know that. Well then getting a GTS would be a lot easier then and save me the troubles of boring out a GT engine.
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Haulin_A_Doo Aug 19, 5:48am - #253373 
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Originally Posted by spyder00367

Originally Posted by ikin

do you plan to bore the gts if you swap it? confused
I dont think you can bore a GTS engine confused sidewalls are to small. Really you can turn off lift with with the PFC? I didnt know that. Well then getting a GTS would be a lot easier then and save me the troubles of boring out a GT engine.


You can bore pretty much any motor. There is always some room. I know they sell a 50 over kit.

Turning off lift using power FC should be possible, just set it to 9900 RPM.

Me, I'd never do that stuff. Too much money is involved & its not worth modding a 1.8L motor. You get way more HP per dollar if you mod a 455. thumbsup

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Anonymous Aug 19, 5:52am - #253374 
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Originally Posted by Haulin_A_Doo
Originally Posted by spyder00367
Originally Posted by ikin
do you plan to bore the gts if you swap it? confused
I dont think you can bore a GTS engine confused sidewalls are to small. Really you can turn off lift with with the PFC? I didnt know that. Well then getting a GTS would be a lot easier then and save me the troubles of boring out a GT engine.


You can bore pretty much any motor. There is always some room. I know they sell a 50 over kit.

Turning off lift using power FC should be possible, just set it to 9900 RPM.

Me, I'd never do that stuff. Too much money is involved & its not worth modding a 1.8L motor. You get way more HP per dollar if you mod a 455. thumbsup
Well i put serious thought into getting a 3sgte but dont think im gonna do it. I dont know. Im still in debate of a built up Turbo celica, 3sgte swap, or STi. Its really just a debate or what is economical and how fast is fast enough.
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ikin Aug 19, 5:55am - #253375 
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u cant bore the gts and why would you want ot turn off lift?i dont think lift will play that mcuh of a factor unless ur running high boost.
dont forget it cost a lot to buy a gts engine and tranny, and other stuff like cat.

u should send SF an email and ask them what is safe for the gts, i think its like 6psi for daily driven i think at 241 whp. with lower pistons and rods you can easily get 270+whp

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Anonymous Aug 19, 5:57am - #253376 
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Originally Posted by ikin
u cant bore the gts and why would you want ot turn off lift?i dont think lift will play that mcuh of a factor unless ur running high boost.
dont forget it cost a lot to buy a gts engine and tranny, and other stuff like cat.

u should send SF an email and ask them what is safe for the gts, i think its like 6psi for daily driven i think at 241 whp. with lower pistons and rods you can easily get 270+whp
Im not gonna swap the engines just trade my car completly for a used GTS. I still havent figured out whether a car with higher boost would run goo with lift. But its nice to know i could always just turn it off if i need to.
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Haulin_A_Doo Aug 19, 6:02am - #253377 
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Originally Posted by spyder00367
Originally Posted by ikin
u cant bore the gts and why would you want ot turn off lift?i dont think lift will play that mcuh of a factor unless ur running high boost.
dont forget it cost a lot to buy a gts engine and tranny, and other stuff like cat.

u should send SF an email and ask them what is safe for the gts, i think its like 6psi for daily driven i think at 241 whp. with lower pistons and rods you can easily get 270+whp
Im not gonna swap the engines just trade my car completly for a used GTS. I still havent figured out whether a car with higher boost would run goo with lift. But its nice to know i could always just turn it off if i need to.


Talk to a dude with Power FC & make sure that can be done. Its logical that if you can set it, you can set it too high to engage.
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Sultan Aug 19, 8:56am - #253378 

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you're losing sight of an important point - when you're running Turbo @ 250+ hp, lift is a moot point

... keeping this in mind, I would just keep your GT and upgrade your internals. Then put in your Turbo (c2gas stage 2 kit imo) and run with the boosted GTS's all night...
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slidr Aug 19, 3:20pm - #253379 

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Originally Posted by spyder00367
Originally Posted by ikin
u cant bore the gts and why would you want ot turn off lift?i dont think lift will play that mcuh of a factor unless ur running high boost.
dont forget it cost a lot to buy a gts engine and tranny, and other stuff like cat.

u should send SF an email and ask them what is safe for the gts, i think its like 6psi for daily driven i think at 241 whp. with lower pistons and rods you can easily get 270+whp
Im not gonna swap the engines just trade my car completly for a used GTS. I still havent figured out whether a car with higher boost would run goo with lift. But its nice to know i could always just turn it off if i need to.
Why wouldn't boost run well with lift? If you boost any engine, it is always a good idea to beef up the internals.

What are you looking for exactly? Speed?

If so, then why wouldn't you want to boost a 6 speed GTS?

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Anonymous Aug 19, 4:02pm - #253380 
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Originally Posted by slidr

Originally Posted by spyder00367

Originally Posted by ikin

u cant bore the gts and why would you want ot turn off lift?i dont think lift will play that mcuh of a factor unless ur running high boost.
dont forget it cost a lot to buy a gts engine and tranny, and other stuff like cat.

u should send SF an email and ask them what is safe for the gts, i think its like 6psi for daily driven i think at 241 whp. with lower pistons and rods you can easily get 270+whp
Im not gonna swap the engines just trade my car completly for a used GTS. I still havent figured out whether a car with higher boost would run goo with lift. But its nice to know i could always just turn it off if i need to.
Why wouldn't boost run well with lift? If you boost any engine, it is always a good idea to beef up the internals.

What are you looking for exactly? Speed?

If so, then why wouldn't you want to boost a 6 speed GTS?
Well if im running high amounts of boost putting me in 250 hp range its not like lift is really gonna help that much anyway. I can only see it being a weak point and require a lot more tuning. But can anyone confirm this? Does lift work well with high amounts of boost???
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My Sixth Gear Aug 19, 4:29pm - #253381 
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GT and GTS are both 1.8 liter you wouldnt have to bore the gt out to a 1.8 liter

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Clos Aug 19, 4:35pm - #253382 
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or you can get some low conpresion pistons on a gts and bosted, GTS baby thumbsup thumbsup

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Anonymous Aug 19, 4:40pm - #253383 
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Originally Posted by Clos
or you can get some low conpresion pistons on a gts and bosted, GTS baby thumbsup thumbsup
but i could get low compression pistons for the GT too. So what is better??
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qbanprepster21 Aug 19, 4:47pm - #253384 
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The GT and the GTS are both good for Turbo, but some factors come into play. If your running high boost, the GTS is not good for that, even if you change the compression. Heres a reason why, IMO, the GTS has shorter rods then the GT, the GTS also has lift, so if your running at your maximum that your engine can handle, lift will give you more and blow your engine, so you would have to lower boost. With a GT you dont have too. IMO, the GT is best ofr Turbo, Heres why, again IMO..THe GT has a longer stroke, you can easily get a bigger bore, since the sides are not as thin, you can bore it out more, so you bore it out, and you good, well, also lower the compression. Also, with longet stroke, youre looking at better midrange power and better tq, look at the dyno charts, the gt gets more hp and tq per boost level then the GTS does. The GT and GTS might look like there doing the same thing with HP at same level of boost and GTS might be getting more, but the GT still has more tq at any level of boost, then the GTS has. And once you start boosting at higher levels, the longetr stroke on the GT will start to play a major factor, becuase its better to have a longer stroke with the Turbo.. and you cant prove that with your GTS becuase it cant handle that much and even if you do beef up your internals, the shorter stroke, after high boost, wont let you get a lot compared to what the GT can give you. The GTS has a shorter stroke to give it more N/A power, the shorter stroke is what allows it to rev to almost 9000rpm, but all in all, IMO, i think the GT is better for Turbo systems, because of no lift, being able to bore it out better and easier, longer stroke...and to me the GTS is an awesome N/A car to build up, but thats it. You can get more power per level of boost with the GT, then you can get with the GTS at the same level, it just doesnt handle as well!!!

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Lucky_317 Aug 19, 4:51pm - #253385 

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we ran 11 lbs of boost on a stock internal gts and put down 277 whp smile

the biggest reason people say the GT is better is because nobody has bothered to do it right on a gts wink IMO and from what I've seen is that with equal work to each the gts will put out more power but require more tuning. there will be a built motor, boosted GTS out very soon. highest hp GT I've seen is 304 hp. I fully expect the gts to easily pass that thumbsup

also you do not want or need to eliminate lift. you wont feel lift anymore but there will still be a definite jump in power as you switch cams. these engines can do a lil more then people give them credit for. The biggest problem is they are not all that easy to work with grin

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Anonymous Aug 19, 4:53pm - #253386 
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ahhh so much confusion
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qbanprepster21 Aug 19, 4:58pm - #253387 
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Originally Posted by Lucky_317

we ran 11 lbs of boost on a stock internal gts and put down 277 whp smile

the biggest reason people say the GT is better is because nobody has bothered to do it right on a gts wink IMO and from what I've seen is that with equal work to each the gts will put out more power but require more tuning. there will be a built motor, boosted GTS out very soon. highest hp GT I've seen is 304 hp. I fully expect the gts to easily pass that thumbsup

also you do not want or need to eliminate lift. you wont feel lift anymore but there will still be a definite jump in power as you switch cams. these engines can do a lil more then people give them credit for. The biggest problem is they are not all that easy to work with grin


if you ran 11psi on a gt, with correct tuning, you can get better then 304 as well

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qbanprepster21 Aug 19, 5:01pm - #253388 
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also, you have to factor in the fact that the GT is starting from 140 while the GTS is starting from 180, so it has a lot to catch up too, im not saying that its gonna be faster then GTS with each psi leve of boost, but what im saying is that you can get it to get better gains with each PSI level then waht the GTS can get with each PSI level!!

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AZZKIKR Aug 19, 5:03pm - #253389 

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ok, bro...its like this...its better to boost a GT...here is why:

you have a GT already.
the 1zz has more space in between the cylinder walls than the 2zz, so if you are going to bore it out then do it with the GT, you'll also probably end up with better torque. The lower compression internals and a properly built block (including sleeves and o-ringing the block) will hold all the damn boost you want to throw at it. the 1zz tranny is Ffaulty at 250 lb-ft of torque, so be careful with that. Lift would require a lot more dyno tuning for the Turbo. VVTL-I lifts the Intake cam and with the Turbo, it would make a Turbo all of the sudden be forced to spool a lot faster, and at that rpm range it should already be hitting the preset PSI max according to your boost controller, which would kind of make things irrelevant wouldn't it??? More power has been pulled from the 1zz block, and there is more support and what not from different people's experiences. think about this...you can build a lower compression 1zz, with a t3-t4 Turbo setup, and run 300 hp all day for around $10,000. you cold also get c2gas's new tranny for like $3,000 and have a reliable monster. THe Monkey wrench racing guys have tuned a 1zz MR-S recently and saw 340 WHP!!!! and ran an 11 sec quarter...now that's nuts. The GTS also runs very lean at lift, and it would be easier to tune a GT on a dyno with a wideband 02. Lucky and illusive have tuned their GTS to have perfect a/f ratios so I don't really think its even an issue. I think the GT is better for this mainly: more has been done with it already as far as Turbo goes, the cylinder walls are thicker, and a tranny has been built to handle the power so you'll get to enjoy all that money you put into your car for a much longer time without hiccups.
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qbanprepster21 Aug 19, 5:06pm - #253390 
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Originally Posted by AZZKIKR
ok, bro...its like this...its better to boost a GT...here is why:

you have a GT already.
the 1zz has more space in between the cylinder walls than the 2zz, so if you are going to bore it out then do it with the GT, you'll also probably end up with better torque. The lower compression internals and a properly built block (including sleeves and o-ringing the block) will hold all the damn boost you want to throw at it. the 1zz tranny is Ffaulty at 250 lb-ft of torque, so be careful with that. Lift would require a lot more dyno tuning for the Turbo. VVTL-I lifts the Intake cam and with the Turbo, it would make a Turbo all of the sudden be forced to spool a lot faster, and at that rpm range it should already be hitting the preset PSI max according to your boost controller, which would kind of make things irrelevant wouldn't it??? More power has been pulled from the 1zz block, and there is more support and what not from different people's experiences. think about this...you can build a lower compression 1zz, with a t3-t4 Turbo setup, and run 300 hp all day for around $10,000. you cold also get c2gas's new tranny for like $3,000 and have a reliable monster. THe Monkey wrench racing guys have tuned a 1zz MR-S recently and saw 340 WHP!!!! and ran an 11 sec quarter...now that's nuts. The GTS also runs very lean at lift, and it would be easier to tune a GT on a dyno with a wideband 02. Lucky and illusive have tuned their GTS to have perfect a/f ratios so I don't really think its even an issue. I think the GT is better for this mainly: more has been done with it already as far as Turbo goes, the cylinder walls are thicker, and a tranny has been built to handle the power so you'll get to enjoy all that money you put into your car for a much longer time without hiccups.


more reasons why the GT is better, thanx AZZKIKR...

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AZZKIKR Aug 19, 5:09pm - #253391 

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Quote:

if you ran 11psi on a gt, with correct tuning, you can get better then 304 as well


not really...you'd have to have a bigger Turbo for that, not just a t3-t4. I'm with lucky that a properly tuned GTS may be better, but right now I'm sticking with my say that the GT is better because there is more backup for it, and it has been proven to be reliable. THe GTS tranny has problems even without lift, and with lift it may be worse...who knows. I know that if I were gonna put $15,000 into my engine I'd want to be able to drive the damn thing forever!!!! PLUS, YOU ALREADY HAVE A GT!!!!!...think about that
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Lucky_317 Aug 19, 5:21pm - #253392 

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it's easy to say the GT cause its been done. once this gts rolls out we will see. until then its speculation. however having watched how its developed I have much faith in it.

I highly doubt 11 psi on a stock internal GT would push over 300 hp. if it was that easy we'd see a whole lot of them around smile

I personally think the gts will push closer to 400 whp when its done but thats just a guess for now. grin

if you want proven reliability go with the GT. it's a bit easier and its been done. with the GTS everything is pretty much an experiment still.

I like staffords kits personally. the problem that was pointed out to me with c2gas's kits is that his flanges are very thin. (would not be good for someone like me who beats the crap outa the car) his kits do put down good power and I love his tranny so it's not to sy anything bad about him but it does worry me a bit since it was pointed out to me.

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qbanprepster21 Aug 19, 5:26pm - #253393 
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I have seen an 8psi boosted gt hit a little over 240hp without tuning, so you figure, getting 3 more psi and then tuining, it could be possbile!!

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AZZKIKR Aug 19, 5:55pm - #253394 

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Originally Posted by Lucky_317
it's easy to say the GT cause its been done. once this gts rolls out we will see. until then its speculation. however having watched how its developed I have much faith in it.

I highly doubt 11 psi on a stock internal GT would push over 300 hp. if it was that easy we'd see a whole lot of them around smile

I personally think the gts will push closer to 400 whp when its done but thats just a guess for now. grin

if you want proven reliability go with the GT. it's a bit easier and its been done. with the GTS everything is pretty much an experiment still.

I like staffords kits personally. the problem that was pointed out to me with c2gas's kits is that his flanges are very thin. (would not be good for someone like me who beats the crap outa the car) his kits do put down good power and I love his tranny so it's not to sy anything bad about him but it does worry me a bit since it was pointed out to me.


not on stock internals unless you had like a t04E Turbo...lmoa...of course then you'd blow it up too...bwahahahahaha...and yeah, I'm watching the GTS project too (or at least what's posted)...and it looks promising. I'm personally a fan of the Stafford kits...they seem to have more support, and proven hardware. If I were to rebulid again and go Turbo I'd get a Stafford kit and the c2 tranny with the lower compression...its a ton of money to put into anything, and if I'm gonna put it into my car I want to be able to drive it forever. I have a GT anyway, and I wouldn't see the point of doing an engine conversion to the 2zz...plus 300WHp in the celica should make it as quick as you could probably handle on the street anyway...that would be insane
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qbanprepster21 Aug 19, 6:05pm - #253395 
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The GT or the GTS couldnt handle more then that without internals, any car can handle that, but they wont last a long time!!

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Haulin_A_Doo Aug 19, 6:12pm - #253396 
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The GTS would be a better choice to boost, the higher redline & the 6 speed tranny with power FC disabling lift would make it more capable.

From what I remember about racing motors, high duration cams bleed off boost pressures. Lift is designed to let air into the motor better, its not an issue when you boost because you are forcing compressed air in.
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combatc87 Aug 19, 6:13pm - #253397 

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spyder, think of it this way. it's gonna be your daily driver, correct? well, you don't wanna spend a lot of time tuning it and fabricating and trying to get things to work right. the gt has been done before and the information is readily available, so there'd be less downtime during install and parts ordering.

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Clos Aug 19, 6:34pm - #253398 
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damn im really intrested in the GTS project. cant wait till it comes out, good luck lucky, and keep us updated with it, thumbsup
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,373
AZZKIKR
SHO - NUFF
AZZKIKR Aug 19, 6:37pm - #253399 

SHO - NUFF
2003 Toyota Celica GT

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,373
ATL GA
^^^^^ That should be the definitive point for you bro
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,242
Lucky_317
Specialist
Lucky_317 Aug 19, 9:19pm - #253400 

Specialist
2000 Toyota Celica

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,242
Fontana, CA
My car isn't the boosted project rofl mines the N/A project. My car will be happy if it sees around 250 whp.

I will be happy with 220 - 230 but I'm aimin for 250. and for the price I coulda just bought a damn Turbo BUT thats not as fun thumbsup

Best 60' 1.959 best 1/4 - 13.7 @ 101mph
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,077
slidr
Specialist
slidr Aug 19, 11:03pm - #253401 

Specialist
2000 Toyota Celica

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,077
Saint Louis, MO
Originally Posted by Lucky_317
My car isn't the boosted project rofl mines the N/A project. My car will be happy if it sees around 250 whp.

I will be happy with 220 - 230 but I'm aimin for 250. and for the price I coulda just bought a damn Turbo BUT thats not as fun thumbsup
How would you get that much HP to the wheels without F/I?

Aqua Teen Hunger Force...number one in the hood, G
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,320
qbanprepster21
Specialist
qbanprepster21 Aug 19, 11:06pm - #253402 
2003 Liquid Silver Toyota Celica GT
Specialist
2003 Toyota Celica GT

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,320
Virginia
it doesnt surprise me that lucky can get that, he is the N/A King!!! smile

Fudge The World!
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Die Hard, Die Fast, Die Strong & Live Life to its Fullest
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 282
AdamVIP
Member
AdamVIP Aug 19, 11:06pm - #253403 
Member

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 282
CA
Id say stick with the gt cause it will be cheaper and also you know it can be done. Also you can always buy a gts tranny and bulk that up for a little extra later (on the assumption that they have them overseas like that)
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,376
QTRMLR_1
Specialist
QTRMLR_1 Aug 19, 11:34pm - #253404 

Specialist
2002 Toyota Celica

Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,376
Los Angeles, CA
Originally Posted by Lucky_317
My car isn't the boosted project rofl mines the N/A project. My car will be happy if it sees around 250 whp.

I will be happy with 220 - 230 but I'm aimin for 250. and for the price I coulda just bought a damn Turbo BUT thats not as fun thumbsup


That'd be awesome. 250 whp at your current weight (car) would be a low 12 second car at around 115 mph. Imagine if you dropped 200 more lbs. I hope you accomplish this as you would put MUCH more expensive Ferraris with V12's to shame.

I get my kicks on EC.
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,242
Lucky_317
Specialist
Lucky_317 Aug 19, 11:44pm - #253405 

Specialist
2000 Toyota Celica

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,242
Fontana, CA
I highly doubt I'll hit low 12's. mid maybe. gotta remember this is ricer math after all lol it's just a goal not an actual. although I have yet to miss a goal, but thats kinda besides the point for now.

I think realistically 220 should be no problem.

Best 60' 1.959 best 1/4 - 13.7 @ 101mph
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,376
QTRMLR_1
Specialist
QTRMLR_1 Aug 20, 10:01am - #253406 

Specialist
2002 Toyota Celica

Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,376
Los Angeles, CA
I believe in you!!! smile

I get my kicks on EC.
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