Previous Thread
Next Thread
New Reply
Print Thread
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,139
ct
C'mon & hit me!
ct Jul 30, 11:17pm - #236682 

C'mon & hit me!
2000 Toyota Celica GTS

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,139
Woodland Hills, CA
neat article on the AEM bypass valve

http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/tech/0104scc_tested/

some people say the bypass valve does not worke for our cars since the AEM Intake does not have a striaght enough piping for it to work...judge for yourself

Originally posted by SKOOF:
yoru such a clown, i wish you lived in nyc, i would love to just give you the beating that youve probably never gotten in your life.
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,233
EuRoBoYGT
black & blue 4 you
EuRoBoYGT Jul 30, 11:31pm - #236683 

black & blue 4 you
2000 Toyota Celica GT

Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,233
El Paso, TX
pretty cool find thumbsup

[Linked Image]
i've been changing but you'll never see me now
now i'm blaming you for everything
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 375
sho
Member
sho Jul 30, 11:44pm - #236684 

Member
2003 Toyota Celica

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 375
so cal
the pipe they were testing with is pretty damn long,way too much room for the water to stop sucking in compare to CAI for our cars.i think ima just get SRI n not worry about a thing because you never know what might happen.

[Linked Image]
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,030
Erick
Bread Fishing..
Erick Jul 31, 12:21am - #236685 

Bread Fishing..
2001 Toyota Celica GT

Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,030
Bay Area, CA
^^^ good point that point was wayyy too long..

Linked Image Linked Image


still doesn't prove much but interesting find thumbsup

LNK
"you only need something when you know it exists..then it becomes a want"
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,016
Haulin_A_Doo
Specialist
Haulin_A_Doo Jul 31, 12:22am - #236686 
Specialist

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,016
Ontario
And it will only work if you are completely submerged. Otherwise a good enough vacuum is not created to make it work. I don't for a minute believe an Intake has to be completely submerged before it will suck water up.
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,139
ct
C'mon & hit me!
ct Aug 2, 7:35pm - #236687 

C'mon & hit me!
2000 Toyota Celica GTS

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,139
Woodland Hills, CA
Originally Posted by sho
the pipe they were testing with is pretty damn long,way too much room for the water to stop sucking in compare to CAI for our cars.i think ima just get SRI n not worry about a thing because you never know what might happen.


true. but the water was measured to go up 18 inches...that's still longer than the celi AEM Intake.

btw-i thought you had an AEM Intake... confused

Originally posted by SKOOF:
yoru such a clown, i wish you lived in nyc, i would love to just give you the beating that youve probably never gotten in your life.
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 375
sho
Member
sho Aug 2, 9:05pm - #236688 

Member
2003 Toyota Celica

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 375
so cal
what happened was i bought both AEM CAI n Injen SRI. grini wanted to install just one of them n sell the other.i was thinking about putting in SRI but i decided to put on AEM CAI n sell SRI.im willing to sell the SRI for pretty cheap since i only have the piping for it.

[Linked Image]
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,917
tru_Asiatik_Pride
Blue MnM
tru_Asiatik_Pride Aug 2, 9:48pm - #236689 

Blue MnM
2003 Toyota Celica

Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,917
Southern California
is the test done by AEM??? if so wouldnt they be biased on there product and not report any errors that happend?? confused confused
also as mentioned that pipe is way too long for it to suck in water.
btw did you guys find it funny that they rather test and destroy a nsx engine rather than a beat up neon or something rofl rofl rofl
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,292
CaLiGTS
Phantom
CaLiGTS Aug 2, 9:54pm - #236690 

Phantom
2001 Toyota Celica

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,292
Bay Area, NorCal
interesting

[Linked Image]
Ask yourself one question. Is the juice worth the squeeze?
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 300
Miketrd
Member
Miketrd Aug 3, 3:16am - #236691 
2003 Silver Toyota Celica GT
Member
2003 Toyota Celica GT

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 300
Puerto Rico
I have the AEM Intake, but i don't have the bypass valve. I live in a tropical island and here rains a lot, i have a damn voice in my head that says " get the bypass valve " but i don't.

I don't really have the proper tools to cut right the Intake and don't know who can do that job for me.

Don't know the chances of getting a hydrolock.
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 24
Conrad_Turbo
Member
Conrad_Turbo Aug 3, 2:02pm - #236692 
1990 White, Silver, Rust Toyota Celica, Starlet
Member
1990 Toyota Celica, Starlet

Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 24
Canada
Thats an OLD article...

In a real world no Air Filter will be completely submerged and stay like that for long periods of time. It will splash in and out of water and this is when an engine will hydrolock. It doesn't take an Intake full of water to hydrolock an engine, it takes a teaspoon of water in a cylinder to cause hydrolock.

This represents a true street application:

Quote:

Pulling the filter out of the water with the engine still pulling hard, however, caused something rather alarming to happen. When the filter was pulled out of the water, air immediately started going through the filter, even though there was still about a foot of water in the pipe. The trapped water frothed and thrashed about in a most alarming way


Now imagine this on a street car where you don't have a giant vertical pipe protecting the engine, you have a lot less height difference when the Intake is in the car. AEM bypass valve is just a make believe bandaid for a poor Intake design by AEM, also another way for them to make more money.

If the valve really did work, why wouldn't WRC cars use it? Because it doesn't work. grin

Conrad Andres
Quality Assurance Engineer
ACE Engineering
1990 Toyota Celica Alltrac (Daily driver
1982 Toyota Starlet (Turbocharged race car)
[Linked Image]
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,139
ct
C'mon & hit me!
ct Aug 3, 2:16pm - #236693 

C'mon & hit me!
2000 Toyota Celica GTS

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,139
Woodland Hills, CA
well it peaked my interest because at full throttle (and i doubt our celis suck harder than a 250whp nsx) the water rose 18 inches. isn't the AEM piping for our car longer than that? confused

plus i thought it took more than a teaspoon to hydrolock a car. i thought the general consensus was that small tricklets of water are negligible

Originally posted by SKOOF:
yoru such a clown, i wish you lived in nyc, i would love to just give you the beating that youve probably never gotten in your life.
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 24
Conrad_Turbo
Member
Conrad_Turbo Aug 4, 1:42pm - #236694 
1990 White, Silver, Rust Toyota Celica, Starlet
Member
1990 Toyota Celica, Starlet

Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 24
Canada
Originally Posted by ct
well it peaked my interest because at full throttle (and i doubt our celis suck harder than a 250whp nsx) the water rose 18 inches. isn't the AEM piping for our car longer than that? confused

plus i thought it took more than a teaspoon to hydrolock a car. i thought the general consensus was that small tricklets of water are negligible


It's the elevation change (positive head) of the water, not the total distance travelled down a pipe.

Tricklets of water is less than a teaspoon...FYI I run water injection on my race car so I know a thing or two about an engine consuming water.

Conrad Andres
Quality Assurance Engineer
ACE Engineering
1990 Toyota Celica Alltrac (Daily driver
1982 Toyota Starlet (Turbocharged race car)
[Linked Image]
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,139
ct
C'mon & hit me!
ct Aug 4, 2:24pm - #236695 

C'mon & hit me!
2000 Toyota Celica GTS

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,139
Woodland Hills, CA
i'm not questioning your knowledge. just getting my facts straight so that others would know as well. it seems a teaspoon is a little low to get hydrolocked. many people have driven in really heavy rain and most have said the filter has to be totally submereged to get hydro locked.

i can see what you mean by elevation change...that seems to make sense thumbsup

Originally posted by SKOOF:
yoru such a clown, i wish you lived in nyc, i would love to just give you the beating that youve probably never gotten in your life.
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 24
Conrad_Turbo
Member
Conrad_Turbo Aug 4, 3:47pm - #236696 
1990 White, Silver, Rust Toyota Celica, Starlet
Member
1990 Toyota Celica, Starlet

Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 24
Canada
Well on a 1.8L engine with a compression ratio of 11.5:1...if you get 39.1cc of water in a cylinder you will have 0 room for any air/fuel. So that's 7.9 teaspoons...but you can hydrolock an engine on less than 7.9 teaspoons, but maybe not 1 teaspoon like I originally stated. wink But none the less it doesn't take much water to bend a connecting rod, blow a headgasket or cause other internal engine damage.

FYI your filter doesn't need to be 100% submerged to hydrolock, it's easier to believe that though. But with it partially submerged the Intake air velocity will help draw up water quickly into the combustion chambers, while as a fully submerged filter takes more time to draw up a large volume of water filling up the Intake pipe.

Conrad Andres
Quality Assurance Engineer
ACE Engineering
1990 Toyota Celica Alltrac (Daily driver
1982 Toyota Starlet (Turbocharged race car)
[Linked Image]
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,139
ct
C'mon & hit me!
ct Aug 4, 6:01pm - #236697 

C'mon & hit me!
2000 Toyota Celica GTS

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,139
Woodland Hills, CA
that's interesting. makes sense. so are guys who run when it's raining safe or not? what do you suggest for CAI users/Intake users?

Originally posted by SKOOF:
yoru such a clown, i wish you lived in nyc, i would love to just give you the beating that youve probably never gotten in your life.
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 24
Conrad_Turbo
Member
Conrad_Turbo Aug 4, 8:39pm - #236698 
1990 White, Silver, Rust Toyota Celica, Starlet
Member
1990 Toyota Celica, Starlet

Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 24
Canada
They are safe if they have adequate shielding around their filter and don't drive around thinking their cars are submarines.

Best suggestion I'd have for a CAI Intake setup? I'd cut the Intake a few feet from the throttle body, put a filter on the end of it. Then build a box around the filter and duct cold air to it, NOT FROM THE GROUND. Duct it from as high above the ground as possible. This will yield colder air and be 100x safer than a "cold" air Intake.

Conrad Andres
Quality Assurance Engineer
ACE Engineering
1990 Toyota Celica Alltrac (Daily driver
1982 Toyota Starlet (Turbocharged race car)
[Linked Image]
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,016
Haulin_A_Doo
Specialist
Haulin_A_Doo Aug 4, 8:47pm - #236699 
Specialist

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,016
Ontario
Leave the stock airbox on; the cost, the labour putting it on, the minimal gains & the risk isn't worth it.

The stock airbox has a low velocity chamber which slows the incoming air which causes water & dust to drop out before it reaches the filter. And the stock airbox is a CAI.
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,016
Haulin_A_Doo
Specialist
Haulin_A_Doo Aug 4, 8:51pm - #236700 
Specialist

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,016
Ontario
Originally Posted by Conrad_Turbo
Well on a 1.8L engine with a compression ratio of 11.5:1...if you get 39.1cc of water in a cylinder you will have 0 room for any air/fuel. So that's 7.9 teaspoons...but you can hydrolock an engine on less than 7.9 teaspoons, but maybe not 1 teaspoon like I originally stated. wink But none the less it doesn't take much water to bend a connecting rod, blow a headgasket or cause other internal engine damage.

FYI your filter doesn't need to be 100% submerged to hydrolock, it's easier to believe that though. But with it partially submerged the Intake air velocity will help draw up water quickly into the combustion chambers, while as a fully submerged filter takes more time to draw up a large volume of water filling up the Intake pipe.


thumbsup
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,139
ct
C'mon & hit me!
ct Aug 4, 8:54pm - #236701 

C'mon & hit me!
2000 Toyota Celica GTS

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,139
Woodland Hills, CA
a CAI is essential for a gts. an AEM Intake and TRD exhaust set up has been known to give peak10+whp...

Originally posted by SKOOF:
yoru such a clown, i wish you lived in nyc, i would love to just give you the beating that youve probably never gotten in your life.
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 405
SiLvErGt2001
Senior Member
SiLvErGt2001 Aug 4, 10:24pm - #236702 

Senior Member
2001 ToYoTa Celica GT VVT

Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 405
(SaN JoSe)CaLiFoRniA
that some interesting shit to read !!! thumbsup
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 24
Conrad_Turbo
Member
Conrad_Turbo Aug 5, 2:25pm - #236703 
1990 White, Silver, Rust Toyota Celica, Starlet
Member
1990 Toyota Celica, Starlet

Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 24
Canada
Originally Posted by Haulin_A_Doo
The stock airbox has a low velocity chamber which slows the incoming air which causes water & dust to drop out before it reaches the filter. And the stock airbox is a CAI.


But a panel filter has less surface area than a cylindrical or cone filter. Larger surface area means a smaller pressure drop, thus more power. Besides the OEM Intake piping is fairly restrictive.

But don't get me wrong I'd take an OEM Intake system over a CAI anyday. But the best setup is a short "ram" with an airbox around the filter and air ducted to it from as high above the ground as possible. If WRC cars and many other forms of motorsports are doing it...why isn't the majority of modified street cars doing the same? Seems odd to me...but then a CAI has a deeper sound than a short "ram" I guess.

Conrad Andres
Quality Assurance Engineer
ACE Engineering
1990 Toyota Celica Alltrac (Daily driver
1982 Toyota Starlet (Turbocharged race car)
[Linked Image]
Join the conversation - Register now or Sign in to add your comment


Moderated by  isaac 

Customize Your Toyota CelicaPrivacy Policy · About · Contact
CelicaHobby.com is an independent Toyota Celica enthusiast website. CelicaHobby.com is not sponsored by or affiliated with Toyota Motor Sales, USA, Inc. in any way. The Toyota and Celica names and logos are trademarks owned by Toyota Motor Sales, USA, Inc.
© CelicaHobby.com, 2001-2016