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BESTONE
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BESTONE Jul 8, 2:04am - #218555 
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Nitro

what is the diference between wet kits and dry kits. I heard something about with wet kits there are no buttons or something. Im sorry. Ignorant about nitro
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round2gts
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round2gts Jul 8, 2:19am - #218556 

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nitrous... defintly go with dry. basically same hp output with a lot less chance of blowing up. wet is for serious serious racing. dry is for racing and daliy driving. only do wet if ur a pro.

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SaddY
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SaddY Jul 8, 5:26am - #218557 
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Wet is seriously more SAFE then Dry !!! Dry is just basic hoping you get the right mixture.. in a wet kit you are sure you get the right mixture.. DRY hase more chance of blowing up.. !!
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Gachinto
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Gachinto Jul 8, 7:14am - #218558 

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is nos even legal on street ? because ppl sayin tat it's for DAILY DRIVING ... now i wonder how those ppl would DRIVE daily ... rofl
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wannaBblueCelica
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wannaBblueCelica Jul 8, 7:19am - #218559 

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hmmm... conflicting answers. who is right?
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Stephen
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Stephen Jul 8, 7:52am - #218560 
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Originally Posted by Gachinto
is nos even legal on street ? because ppl sayin tat it's for DAILY DRIVING ... now i wonder how those ppl would DRIVE daily ... rofl


Nitrous Oxide is NOT street legal. It is for use only on the track and off-road or for show...obviously though people will and do use it on the street though. I drive around with my underglow on sometimes and that's illegal. Just depends how lucky you're feeling that night I guess.
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QTRMLR_1
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QTRMLR_1 Jul 8, 11:24am - #218561 

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Originally Posted by Stephen
Originally Posted by Gachinto
is nos even legal on street ? because ppl sayin tat it's for DAILY DRIVING ... now i wonder how those ppl would DRIVE daily ... rofl


Nitrous Oxide is NOT street legal. It is for use only on the track and off-road or for show...obviously though people will and do use it on the street though. I drive around with my underglow on sometimes and that's illegal. Just depends how lucky you're feeling that night I guess.


The good news is that if you have your bottle in an easy to reach position or you have a remote bottle opener, you can simply close your bottle if you are being stopped by po po. Then they can't prove you just used it on the street.
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superderk
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superderk Jul 8, 12:36pm - #218562 

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wet is safer...in fact i think the toyota engines in general have a problem with dry kits...correct me if im wrong.

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drkramm
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drkramm Jul 8, 1:02pm - #218563 
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yea using a dry kit on a yota is asking for trouble wet is the way to go no matter what less chance of a cylinder leaning out and giving you a bad day who ever said a dry is safer needs to lay off the black tar heroin

hey thats a 20 minute phone call
"if i have seen farther it is by standing on the shoulders of giants"
derek: do you know that non dairy cream is flamable
Jennie: ...derek..what did you do
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drkramm
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drkramm Jul 8, 1:04pm - #218564 
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oh and the only diffrence is that a dry kit just sprays the Nitrous in to the Intake while a wet kit sprays the Nitrous and extra fuel so you don't have to rely on the stock fuel delivery for the extra gas

hey thats a 20 minute phone call
"if i have seen farther it is by standing on the shoulders of giants"
derek: do you know that non dairy cream is flamable
Jennie: ...derek..what did you do
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AZZKIKR
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AZZKIKR Jul 8, 1:09pm - #218565 

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hehehehe...what happened to direct port? grin...yeah, but wet kita are safer...with a dry kit you run the chance of running extrememly lean, and blowing your stuff all to hell...also, with a wet kit, each cylinder has its own nitrous injector, so the juice is distributed more evenly, whereas a dry kit has a single nitrous injector in the Intake tube. Wet kits are better because the nitrous and fuel is mixed BEFORE it reaches the cylinder, and a wet kit makes the nitrous mix in the cylinder for combustion with the fuel...wet kits are way safer...
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drkramm
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drkramm Jul 8, 2:28pm - #218566 
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Originally Posted by AZZKIKR
hehehehe...what happened to direct port? grin...yeah, but wet kita are safer...with a dry kit you run the chance of running extrememly lean, and blowing your stuff all to hell...also, with a wet kit, each cylinder has its own nitrous injector, so the juice is distributed more evenly, whereas a dry kit has a single nitrous injector in the Intake tube. Wet kits are better because the nitrous and fuel is mixed BEFORE it reaches the cylinder, and a wet kit makes the nitrous mix in the cylinder for combustion with the fuel...wet kits are way safer...


you can get signle nozzel wet kicks (well its two one for the juice and one for gas but direct port is even better but thats a lot more work

hey thats a 20 minute phone call
"if i have seen farther it is by standing on the shoulders of giants"
derek: do you know that non dairy cream is flamable
Jennie: ...derek..what did you do
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QTRMLR_1
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QTRMLR_1 Jul 8, 3:21pm - #218567 

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Originally Posted by wannaBblueCelica
hmmm... conflicting answers. who is right?


The person who said "wet is safer" is right. The new celica has no fuel return line through which excess fuel is routed back to the tank. The wet will spray the right ratio and amount of fuel and nitrous...whereas the dry sprays only nitrous whlle increasing the fuel pressure. In the dry, the excess fuel with nowhere to go will back up into the Intake manifold, setting up a backfire. So wet is "safer" in that it won't blow your engine apart. thumbsup

You can use a dry system in the celica ONLY IF you have a shop custom install a fuel return line.

BTW, when referring to cars "nitro" would be short for nitromethane, a "rocket" fuel. Use the term "nitrous" to refer to nitrous oxide, which can be used for cars or people hehe. grin
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Lark
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Lark Jul 8, 3:46pm - #218568 
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Originally Posted by QTRMLR_1
Originally Posted by wannaBblueCelica
hmmm... conflicting answers. who is right?


The person who said "wet is safer" is right. The new celica has no fuel return line through which excess fuel is routed back to the tank. The wet will spray the right ratio and amount of fuel and nitrous...whereas the dry sprays only nitrous whlle increasing the fuel pressure. In the dry, the excess fuel with nowhere to go will back up into the Intake manifold, setting up a backfire. So wet is "safer" in that it won't blow your engine apart. thumbsup

You can use a dry system in the celica ONLY IF you have a shop custom install a fuel return line.

BTW, when referring to cars "nitro" would be short for nitromethane, a "rocket" fuel. Use the term "nitrous" to refer to nitrous oxide, which can be used for cars or people hehe. grin

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QTRMLR_1
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QTRMLR_1 Jul 8, 3:51pm - #218569 

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Since direct port was brought up I will address it. There are several companies coming out with universal 4 cylinder EFI direct port kits, Zex and NOS most notably. The retail price is in the neighborhood of $1000, not including the extras. The good news is that instead of the old direct port systems where you had to drill into the Intake manifold, these new systems plug right into the fuel rail and have a hole for the stock fuel injectors to plug into. The hp rating for the Zex I believe is 75-125, and the NOS 75-150. On the celica, I wouldn't even think of using more than 75 hp direct port w/o first beefing up your engine with forged pistons, rods, etc. I would also use the brand of piston rings that Lisa Kubo uses: www.totalseal.com. In addition you should have a shop custom weld sleeves into your block, so it can handle the power. Then you need to spend money upgrading your whole fuel delivery system for more than the 75 shot. I would estimate the final cost of a serious direct port install to be in the neighborhood of $4000, if you do everything yourself not including the welding of the sleeves. I'm sure many of you are thinking I may as well save up and get a Turbo. Not a bad idea, but you probably should live in an area where you don't have to get smog checks. Go rural celicas hehe. grin

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hkysk8r86
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hkysk8r86 Jul 8, 4:21pm - #218570 

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Toyo's are definately not made to handle a dry shot kit, dry kits are made for bigger engines like V6's and V8's, for us 4 bangers we need the definate mixture so we don't blow our engines, due to the size of larger engines they can play the guessing game with the Nitrous>fuel mixture, we just can't.

Nitrous oxide is definately NOT street legal, like QTRMLR_1 said, if you have a remote bottle opener you should be fine if you have any run-in's with the po po's
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QTRMLR_1
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QTRMLR_1 Jul 8, 4:49pm - #218571 

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Originally Posted by hkysk8r86
Toyo's are definately not made to handle a dry shot kit, dry kits are made for bigger engines like V6's and V8's, for us 4 bangers we need the definate mixture so we don't blow our engines, due to the size of larger engines they can play the guessing game with the Nitrous>fuel mixture, we just can't.


Zex has 4 cylinder dry kits for cars that have fuel return lines. Scroll up a little and read my post.
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BESTONE
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BESTONE Jul 8, 5:25pm - #218572 
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question...both the dry and the wet are activated with a button. Since I heard that you activate the nitro after 2500rpm and desactivated before the redline. But someone told me that with wet kits they activete themselves some like that I just like someone to explain me this better. Sorry ignorant about it
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QTRMLR_1
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QTRMLR_1 Jul 8, 6:05pm - #218573 

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Nitrous should never be used at any time other than Wide Open Throttle (WOT). At any time other than WOT, a fuel puddle can form in the Intake manifold, leading to a backfire that can separate the Intake manifold from the rest of the engine. Manufacturers have for the most part eliminated the push button style to make nitrous safer and easier to use. With the new systems which tap into your throttle position sensor, all the driver must do is flip an arming switch, floor the gas pedal, and the nitrous is automatically activated. If those two conditions are not met (arming switch on, Throttle Position voltage indicating 100%), then no nitrous will be sprayed. WOT style is safer for the engine and easier on the driver. All of the above is true for wet or dry systems.

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QTRMLR_1
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QTRMLR_1 Jul 8, 6:24pm - #218574 

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Let's clarify two terms:
arm = prepare for action
activate = set into action

To comment on the "redline" portion of your question:
you meant to say that some nitrous kits "disarm" before you hit the factory rev limiter/fuel cut. It's risky to hit the factory fuel cut with nitrous "activated", as this can cause a momentary lean condition leading to detonation. Some kits come with a window switch that arms (not activates) the nitrous at and after a certain rpm and then disarms the nitrous at and after a certain rpm before the factory fuel cut. The Zex kit does not come with a window switch, while the NOS kit does come with a window switch. For the zex kit you can use a window switch by MSD or another reputable company. thumbsup

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SaddY
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SaddY Jul 8, 6:28pm - #218575 
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Originally Posted by AZZKIKR
hehehehe...what happened to direct port? grin...yeah, but wet kita are safer...with a dry kit you run the chance of running extrememly lean, and blowing your stuff all to hell...also, with a wet kit, each cylinder has its own nitrous injector, so the juice is distributed more evenly, whereas a dry kit has a single nitrous injector in the Intake tube. Wet kits are better because the nitrous and fuel is mixed BEFORE it reaches the cylinder, and a wet kit makes the nitrous mix in the cylinder for combustion with the fuel...wet kits are way safer...

wel Wet kit is safer wink like I said.. I'd go for Direct port myself.. but still it's wet smile
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QTRMLR_1
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QTRMLR_1 Jul 8, 8:30pm - #218576 

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Originally Posted by AZZKIKR
hehehehe...what happened to direct port? grin...yeah, but wet kita are safer...with a dry kit you run the chance of running extrememly lean, and blowing your stuff all to hell...also, with a wet kit, each cylinder has its own nitrous injector, so the juice is distributed more evenly, whereas a dry kit has a single nitrous injector in the Intake tube. Wet kits are better because the nitrous and fuel is mixed BEFORE it reaches the cylinder, and a wet kit makes the nitrous mix in the cylinder for combustion with the fuel...wet kits are way safer...


With BOTH a wet AND dry kit you run the chance of running lean and having detonation occur IF you do not adequately prepare for nitrous. You can run lean if your bottle pressure is too high because of the ambient temperature on a very hot day (use ice to cool it). Detonation is the uncontrolled burning of the air/fuel mixture in your engine which can damage vital components. Detonation can be caused by a variety of factors being met which contribute to too high pressure and temperature in the combustion chambers:

Running too lean can cause detonation. You can have detonation if your spark plugs aren't cold enough or you haven't retarded your timing enough for the shot you are using (get a timing retard computer if you want a big shot like 75). You can have detonation if the octane of your fuel is not high enough. Octane level is defined as a measure of a fuel's resistance to detonation (the higher the better).

As I stated earlier a dry kit cannot be used b/c the celica does not have a fuel return line, which causes another problem called fuel puddling, which also leads to explosive results.

In conclusion, no need to be worried: Just use a wet kit AND adequately prepare for nitrous...extremely important. thumbsup

More comments on AZZKIKR's post:
It is not true that with any wet kit each cylinder has its own nitrous injector. That is direct port which is a kind of wet system, a subset of wet. smile When talking about a "wet" kit, a single fogger nozzle is implied. Single fogger wet sprays fuel and nitrous in the Intake tube from one jet, positioned after the MAF sensor but at least 6 in. before the throttle body, to be precise.
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AZZKIKR
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AZZKIKR Jul 8, 8:47pm - #218577 

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^^^^ ahh...good points my friend...I had juice on my last ride...NX dual stage Direct port, with JAcobs electronics progressive nitrous controller, with a built in RPM switch function (3000 on at WOT, and 5500 off at WOT)MSD ignition, MSD ignition retard (I think it was 3 degrees for a 100 shot), and autolite plugs (forgot the part number but they were colder)...nitrous is fun, but only if you prepare for it...which is why I went with 11:1 internals in my 03 GT...I've had my fill of F/I...and now I want to stay away thumbsup
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drkramm
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drkramm Jul 8, 9:27pm - #218578 
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Originally Posted by hkysk8r86
Toyo's are definately not made to handle a dry shot kit, dry kits are made for bigger engines like V6's and V8's, for us 4 bangers we need the definate mixture so we don't blow our engines, due to the size of larger engines they can play the guessing game with the Nitrous>fuel mixture, we just can't.

actually number of cylinders has nothing to do with it as long as your fuel system can handel it (return line,etc..) you can run it on any engine just not a large dry shot ive seen many 4cyls with dry shots only 25 hp but still more then stock

hey thats a 20 minute phone call
"if i have seen farther it is by standing on the shoulders of giants"
derek: do you know that non dairy cream is flamable
Jennie: ...derek..what did you do
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QTRMLR_1
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QTRMLR_1 Jul 8, 9:55pm - #218579 

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Originally Posted by drkramm
Originally Posted by hkysk8r86
Toyo's are definately not made to handle a dry shot kit, dry kits are made for bigger engines like V6's and V8's, for us 4 bangers we need the definate mixture so we don't blow our engines, due to the size of larger engines they can play the guessing game with the Nitrous>fuel mixture, we just can't.

actually number of cylinders has nothing to do with it as long as your fuel system can handel it (return line,etc..) you can run it on any engine just not a large dry shot ive seen many 4cyls with dry shots only 25 hp but still more then stock


25 sounds a little too conservative by those people. 55 dry should be safe as long as the car has a fuel return line and you take the usual nitrous precautions as previously stated. The rest of the fuel system, like pump, the need for a pump voltage booster, etc. should be ok unless you go higher than 75.
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drkramm
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drkramm Jul 8, 10:47pm - #218580 
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i meant on a stock 4cyl 8's can do 100 shots esaly

hey thats a 20 minute phone call
"if i have seen farther it is by standing on the shoulders of giants"
derek: do you know that non dairy cream is flamable
Jennie: ...derek..what did you do
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Stephen
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Stephen Jul 8, 11:50pm - #218581 
2003 Silver Toyota Celica GT
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Originally Posted by QTRMLR_1
Originally Posted by Stephen
Originally Posted by Gachinto
is nos even legal on street ? because ppl sayin tat it's for DAILY DRIVING ... now i wonder how those ppl would DRIVE daily ... rofl


Nitrous Oxide is NOT street legal. It is for use only on the track and off-road or for show...obviously though people will and do use it on the street though. I drive around with my underglow on sometimes and that's illegal. Just depends how lucky you're feeling that night I guess.


The good news is that if you have your bottle in an easy to reach position or you have a remote bottle opener, you can simply close your bottle if you are being stopped by po po. Then they can't prove you just used it on the street.


If the Nitrous Bottle is even connected they can still issue you a ticket.
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round2gts
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round2gts Jul 9, 12:49am - #218582 

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2000 Toyota Celica

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New Hampshire
my bad my bad

sry about giving the wrong info on the very 1st post. i though i had it right but was 100% wrong. thank god i know this now even though i don't want nitrous.

sry and thanx all
mike

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QTRMLR_1
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QTRMLR_1 Jul 9, 1:02pm - #218583 

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Originally Posted by Stephen
Originally Posted by QTRMLR_1
Originally Posted by Stephen
Originally Posted by Gachinto
is nos even legal on street ? because ppl sayin tat it's for DAILY DRIVING ... now i wonder how those ppl would DRIVE daily ... rofl


Nitrous Oxide is NOT street legal. It is for use only on the track and off-road or for show...obviously though people will and do use it on the street though. I drive around with my underglow on sometimes and that's illegal. Just depends how lucky you're feeling that night I guess.


The good news is that if you have your bottle in an easy to reach position or you have a remote bottle opener, you can simply close your bottle if you are being stopped by po po. Then they can't prove you just used it on the street.


If the Nitrous Bottle is even connected they can still issue you a ticket.


It depends on where you live. In Las Vegas where I used to live, the nitrous bottle could be connected and even opened up, but they couldn't give you a ticket explicitly for the nitrous. Maybe a ticket for a speed contest, etc. but not the nitrous by itself. Laws change, but that's how it currently is. It's better that they don't see the bottle, so if you plan on using nitrous, hide the bottle as best as you can like in the spare tire compartment, or use several mini nitrous bottles and set it up to be under the front passenger seat. Just be smart and know how to answer cops like a lawyer would. For example: If a cop asks me and actually did: "Has this car been set up for racing?" I replied immediately "No officer, I gutted my car to save money on gas, it's so expensive nowadays...I get 5 more mpg with all the weight I lost." Officer says "Ok."

Tickets and cops are the last thing I am worried about. I get all my speeding tickets changed to parking tickets, no points on record, and my insurance doesn't go up because I use Pre-paid Legal. So don't worry about it people. If you are worried about it, that's your fault.
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