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isaac
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isaac Jan 22, 1:17pm - #18871 
2001 Absolutely Red Toyota Celica GT
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2001 Toyota Celica GT

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[ENGINE] Super Chargers VS Turbo Chargers

Super Chargers VS Turbo Chargers
Whats the difference between a Super Charger and a Turbo Charger?
First you must know the definition of "forced induction"...

FORCED INDUCTION

"Forced Induction" is the process of using a mechanical system to "force" more air into an engine. This includes Superchargers, Turbochargers, Nitrous systems, and other mechanical systems, but not Hood scoops which just direct outside air into the engine. Both Superchargers and Turbos use a compressor to "force" air into the engine, making it more dense (i.e. more oxygen). When a proportionately larger amount of fuel is added to the denser air charge, the mixture creates a much larger explosion and thus more power from the engine. Nitrous Oxide Systems ("NOS") works by directly injecting Nitrous Oxide (NO2) into the engine. The higher concentration of oxygen found in NO2 (compared to air) and more fuel leads to the same effect as Superchargers and Turbos. Although the basic concepts are similar, each differs in their design and execution.

...

SUPERCHARGERS

A supercharger is a compressor driven by a belt attached to the engine's crankshaft. Since they are powered directly by the crankshaft, they are actually a parasitic loss and actually rob horsepower to drive the compressor. However, as they are directly attached to the crankshaft, the extra power is available at all RPMs and there is no "lag" in the power delivery. There are two basic types of Superchargers, Positive Displacement and Centrifugal. Positive Displacement Superchargers fill a chamber of a fixed volume with air at atmospheric pressure and move that air to the high pressure side. These superchargers generally provide a flat torque curve boost throughout the RPM range but are generally less efficient and thus produce less peak power. The most common Positive Displacement Supercharger is the "Roots" Supercharger and is used by most factory setups and Jackson Racing. A Roots Supercharger has two rotating, intermeshing lobes that pump air simply by trapping it on one side of the supercharger between the lobes and the supercharger housing and moving it to the other side of the supercharger. The main advantage of a Roots Supercharger is that there is immediate and proportional response to the throttle, because the blower is always spinning and its pumping ability increases proportionately and linearly with engine speed. Therefore, a Roots Supercharger makes the most low RPM power of any Forced Induction system.

A Centrifugal Supercharger (such as Vortech) is basically the compressor section of a turbocharger, but driven by the crankshaft through a step-up gearbox. Centrifugal superchargers often work best over a very small RPM range but provide higher peak power than Roots superchargers. Unfortunately, the power delivery of the boost increases non-linearly with engine speed meaning that they generate tremendous peak outputs, but at unusably high RPMs. Nevertheless, they are popular with muscle car owners, who have plenty of low end Torque but need high RPM horsepower.

Superchargers can be placed between the throttle body of the carburetor or fuel injection system and the manifold; or at the air inlet before the throttle body. Racing cars usually have it located between the throttle body and the manifold. This design has the advantage that the fuel can be supplied through the throttle body without modification to any part of the system. If the supercharger is placed in front of the throttle body, fuel must be supplied under sufficient pressure to overcome the added air pressure created by the supercharger. The advantage of a supercharger over a turbocharger is that there is no lag time of boost; the moment the accelerator pedal is depressed, the boost is increased.

** Advantages: Instant power delivery
** Disadvantages: Parasitic power loss to system (less peak power)
** Applications: Recommended for low RPM, high torque applications (i.e. V8s)

...

TURBOCHARGERS

A turbocharger uses a turbine that is driven by the hot, expanding exhaust system stream to power a centrifugal compressor which forces air into the engine. Because a turbo is actually driven by wasted energy, there is no loss from the engine to power the turbo. However, because the system is run off the exhaust, it may take some time before the exhaust level builds up to a sufficient level to run the turbo charger. This delay in power delivery is called "Turbo Lag" and can lead to a significant pause between stepping on the gas and the feel of additional power. Furthermore, turbos often require cool down periods after use (meaning you have to let the car idle for a few minutes (!) every time you want to shut the engine off, or else reduce the life of your turbo-charger, which only last 7-10 years anyway. More modern turbo charger designs have allowed turbos to slowly spin down even after the engine has been shut off and are more durable than older designs.

Most turbos use intercoolers, wastegates and compressor bypass valves (blow off valves) to help provide more useable power. An intercooler is a heat exchanger that is used to cool the air heated by the turbocharger's compressor. Therefore, the intercooler can significantly boost power because the cooler air it provides is more dense than the hot air straight out of the turbo. An intercooler also takes thermal load off of the engine by cooling the Intake air. A wastegate is designed to regulate boost pressure, and is simply a valve in the exhaust system that allows some of the exhaust to bypass the the turbo when it is not needed. The Bypass valve is a valve between the throttle and the turbo that vents extra boost pressure. When this valve vents to the outside air, it is called a blow off valve, and when it vents back into the inlet of the turbo, it is called a compressor bypass valve.

A turbocharged engine's compression ratio must be lowered by using a lower compression piston, since an excessive amount of pressure will wear on the piston, connecting rods, and crankshaft, and destroy the engine. All of these parts then, as well as the transmission, must be strengthened on a turbocharged engine or it will be torn apart by the increased horsepower.

** Advantages: Greater peak power
** Disadvantages: Lag in power delivery, long-term durability, cold-start emissions
** Applications: Recommended for high RPM applications (i.e. I4s)

Copyright 2002 Musclecarclub.com
SOURCE: http://www.musclecarclub.com
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thedoc092
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thedoc092 Jan 22, 6:03pm - #18872 
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Posts: 72
Buffalo, New York
Very well said, I am currently saving for a custom turbo setup, most likely by this summer. Can't wait. Later.

2002 Absolutely Red GT-S 6-speed
AEM CAI
AEM Pulley
Tanabe Super Racing Medallion Exhaust

Coming soon:(As soon as I save up)
Custom Turbo Setup
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isaac
ECelica Admin
isaac Mar 8, 2:45am - #18873 
2001 Absolutely Red Toyota Celica GT
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2001 Toyota Celica GT

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Los Angeles, CA
Quote:
Originally posted by <trdcelicaboi03>:
is there a custom turbo or supercharger set-up available on the net anywhere?
there are several custom forced induction systems for the toyota celica... GT and GTS

Blitz GT...
https://www.celicahobby.com/gal3/FC200211-SC

Blitz GTS...
https://www.celicahobby.com/gal3/20020802BlitzSC

Custom GT...
https://www.celicahobby.com/gal3/engine_sc_cust

Turbo GT...
https://www.celicahobby.com/photos/search/myturbo

Another custom GT setup...
https://www.celicahobby.com/gal3/20020922
(bottom of the page)

There are plenty more custom jobs than what I have listed... rice

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supra_celica
Senior Member
supra_celica Apr 3, 7:21am - #18874 

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2000 Toyota Celica GTS

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 447
Woodstock, Georgia
Straight up...the Blitz Super Charger is a rip. I have a turbo magazine where they did the numbers on it. 33 hp gain and 35 tq gain. Not great, ... but the Kit is $5000!! PLUS install!! Yeah, probably at least a grand there. At least $5500 for 33 hp? Just get for that. Unless you got 6 grand lying around for your celica, go ahead. Please post pics if you get it though.

I just saw the XS Engineering Dyno for a Celica GTS with Intake, exhaust and one other small thing (I think AEM pulley). ~101 hp gain and around ~65 tq gain. That's a lot better than the Blitz. The XS kit is 500 bones less, too!! $4500 bucks + Intake, exhaust, pulley(?)= a faster celica than Blitz. Just my 2cents. Throw it back if you don't like it. I'm saving for XS, or whatever is available at that time. Does anyone know how much install runs for a turbo or supercharger? Thanx.
--Rob

Those who knew me, knew me well.
For those who don't, can go to hell.

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Anonymous Apr 17, 12:25pm - #18875 
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Some celica's engines were broke whith this turbo cry
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isaac
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isaac Apr 17, 11:57pm - #18876 
2001 Absolutely Red Toyota Celica GT
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2001 Toyota Celica GT

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Quote:
Originally posted by <TarzOOn>:
Some celica's engines were broke whith this turbo cry
thats because the owner did not tune the engines properly, or didnt pay attention to his gauges as they should have...

this is why every celica has a tachometer and a redline on that tach - you drive for too long in the red line and you will break your stock eninge.

turbos put more stress on your car's engine... if you drive for longer periods with all this added stress and no additional maintenance, then yes... your car will break.

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Anonymous Jun 7, 4:53pm - #18877 
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the blitz charger indeed isn;t much compared to the XS kit.

but then again the XS gets its kits made from torbonetics.

even worse if you take a close looks at the XS kit it uses the cheapest parts. personally i think the compression of the GTS is too high for turbo and if you must use turbo then you need to sleeve the block and make sure your fuel pump is big enough.

the blitz charger is going to be a lot healthier forthe car because it comes with its own ECU.

supposedly that apr car with the rt300 kit on it runs 300 hp.
I forget if its to the flywheel or rubber.
it uses that simple blitz blower with a set of NX.
the stock 160 to flywheel and 180 to rubber. thats a big step up. now if the block DOES handle 300 hp.

why not get the blitz kit. then some big cusco pulleys like 25mm and then a bypass that will work like a boost contr0ller of a turbo? 250 hp to the flywehll constant would be better than the XS kit right?

and finally why pay so much for that blitz SC? theres gotta be a way to get it cheaper.
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SaddY
Senior Member
SaddY May 23, 9:59am - #18878 
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Netherlands, Europe
Originally Posted by Anonymous
the blitz charger indeed isn;t much compared to the XS kit.

but then again the XS gets its kits made from torbonetics.

even worse if you take a close looks at the XS kit it uses the cheapest parts. personally i think the compression of the GTS is too high for Turbo and if you must use Turbo then you need to sleeve the block and make sure your fuel pump is big enough.

the blitz charger is going to be a lot healthier forthe car because it comes with its own ECU.

supposedly that apr car with the rt300 kit on it runs 300 hp.
I forget if its to the flywheel or rubber.
it uses that simple blitz blower with a set of NX.
the stock 160 to flywheel and 180 to rubber. thats a big step up. now if the block DOES handle 300 hp.

why not get the blitz kit. then some big cusco pulleys like 25mm and then a bypass that will work like a boost contr0ller of a Turbo? 250 hp to the flywehll constant would be better than the XS kit right?

and finally why pay so much for that blitz SC? theres gotta be a way to get it cheaper.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the XS kit comes with "Apexi Power FC ECU" tuned for that XS kit.. so the XS kit also comes with it's own ECU
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isaac
ECelica Admin
isaac May 24, 6:21pm - #18879 
2001 Absolutely Red Toyota Celica GT
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check the dates that the reply was created... the APEXi POWER FC for the Celica wasnt available at that time spineyes

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ImportRacer
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ImportRacer Jun 1, 5:26am - #18880 
2002 Candy Red Toyota Celica
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2002 Toyota Celica

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Alabama
If the SC gives low rpm power, why does everyone wont a Turbo. A Celica has lift why do you need high rpm power.
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SaddY
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SaddY Jun 1, 9:46am - #18881 
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I agree on that
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QTRMLR_1
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QTRMLR_1 Jun 3, 1:23pm - #18882 

Specialist
2002 Toyota Celica

Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,376
Los Angeles, CA
You need high rpm power for DRAG racing the Celica GTS, with the Turbo producing more peak power than the SC. Imagine amping up the high end power on a GTS which is a monster on the high end to begin with because of its "lift".
If you DRAG race the GTS right, you should stay in the high rpm range almost all the time (not to mention lift), except maybe on the launch to gain traction. (On my '02 with stock ECU staying in lift in all gears is extremely difficult.)
I really do think once us Celica owners get things figured out, it won't be long that you see GTS' dominating All-Motor NHRA Sport Compact racing. The only tough part is all that shifting which could in practice make you slower. Powershifting would be key. The VVTL-i would make up for some lost time against the inferior VTEC however.
Imagine a 0-40 mph time of 3 sec, a 40-60 time of 1 sec, a 60-80 time of 1 sec, an 80-100 time of 1.5 sec, a 100-120 time of 1.5 sec, a 120-135 time of 1.5. That was conservative and that's 9.5 sec at 135mph. The current ET record is 9.93 sec at 134.99 mph held by Leslie Durst, VTECer.
To be general (although I have specifics in mind): The Ultimate All-Motor Celica GTS needs an all Fiberglass or carbon fiber body, major engine work, lots of extra toys to fine tune the power, and of course lots of tuning. Come on Guys and Gals, let's see if we can make the Celica GTS king of All-Motor!
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trdcruizer
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trdcruizer Jun 22, 6:15am - #18883 
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What about that staford Turbo kit wat kind of goodies does it come with and is there any other kits out there for a 2000 gts

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Anonymous Jun 28, 3:03pm - #18884 
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nice writeup...i have a few questions... does the blitz SC work with AEM pullies and does it work with a PFC?
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pegasus
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pegasus Jul 8, 12:44pm - #18885 

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2001 Toyota Celica

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tampa fl
So, if a GTS wanted to get a, say, SF Turbo kit, I'd have to first lower the compression ratio of the pistons and upgrade the engine or what?
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Posts: 10
james659
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james659 Nov 12, 8:30pm - #18886 
2002 Spectra Blue Toyota Celica
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2002 Toyota Celica

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Posts: 10
New Orleans, Louisiana
hey TRD has a new supercharger for the 1.8L engines... anyone have info on the specs??
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