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DarkMatter
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DarkMatter May 10, 1:38am - #175395 

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2004 Toyota Celica

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Memphis, TN
GT Turbo .vs. GTS Turbo

A mechanic told me that because a stock GT has lower compression than a stock GTS, it's(the gt) is able to run higher ammounts of boost. He said the GT could actually be faster than GTS with the same Turbo...


Is there any truth to this?
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cycocelica
daman
cycocelica May 10, 1:38am - #175396 

daman
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wrong place bro. put it under racing, but to answer it IDK
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grcelica
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grcelica May 10, 1:42am - #175397 

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it makes sense. Good news for me!!
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spaztikid
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spaztikid May 10, 1:44am - #175398 
dikitzaps
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its true... if the GT was running a higher boost level it would have more power.
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Speed4TheNeed
Caleb
Speed4TheNeed May 10, 1:46am - #175399 

Caleb
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gt Turbos can make greater GAINS than gts Turbos...but don't forget that even if a gt Turbo produces 20 more hp than a gts Turbo..that the gts still has 40 more bhp to start with (therefore, even though the gains are better for a gt, it would still not match the hp of a gts).

in any case..the gt and gts use different Turbos for the most part.
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DaBigTickett
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DaBigTickett May 10, 1:47am - #175400 

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Originally Posted by cycocelica
wrong place bro. put it under racing, but to answer it IDK

No this is in the correct forum.
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Speed4TheNeed
Caleb
Speed4TheNeed May 10, 1:50am - #175401 

Caleb
2000 Toyota Celica

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Originally Posted by DaBigTickett
Originally Posted by cycocelica
wrong place bro. put it under racing, but to answer it IDK

No this is in the correct forum.


ditto dabigtickett.

why would it belong in the racing forum? if the question were "which is faster" then it would belong there. the main question was about "gains" though, so this is the correct forum. thumbsup
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Pink_Panther
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Pink_Panther May 10, 1:56am - #175402 

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2000 Toyota Celica

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B-town
gts Turbo's top speed will owned

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DarkMatter
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DarkMatter May 10, 1:57am - #175403 

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2004 Toyota Celica

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Memphis, TN
thanks for the info thus far.
i'm pretty certain i've convinced the parental units to purchase a flux capacitor for my birthday.
june 6th. i cant wait. i-cant-wait... i . cant. wait
so, what's a good AR number for a GTS Turbo? i read that someone recently purchased a .48 ... this is a smaller Turbo which means it will spool faster with more potential psi than a gts can handle anyway, right?

i'm pretty sure i'd rather buy the SF kit than piece it together myself, so what size Turbo does the SF kit come with?
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vejita_13
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vejita_13 May 10, 2:43am - #175404 

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2002 Toyota Celica GT

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SACRAMENTO, CA
Originally Posted by Pink_Panther
gts Turbo's top speed will owned


dont forget lift...
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cycocelica
daman
cycocelica May 10, 3:21am - #175405 

daman
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Originally Posted by sPeEd4tHeNeEd
Originally Posted by DaBigTickett
Originally Posted by cycocelica
wrong place bro. put it under racing, but to answer it IDK

No this is in the correct forum.


ditto dabigtickett.

why would it belong in the racing forum? if the question were "which is faster" then it would belong there. the main question was about "gains" though, so this is the correct forum. thumbsup


yeah i kinda though of it afterward and realized it was correct my bad
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My Sixth Gear
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My Sixth Gear May 10, 3:23am - #175406 
2003 Spectra Blue Mica Toyota Celica
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lmao GTS will always be faster

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fusi0n
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fusi0n May 10, 3:32am - #175407 
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Originally Posted by My Sixth Gear
lmao GTS will always be faster


true..if both cars are at the same psi level on stock internals. however, if both cars were boosted to their max on stock internals, the GT would make more power, obviously because of the lower compression.

btw..a custom Turbo kit is much cheaper in my opinion. i'm going that route, and my projected cost is 2000-2500 for a full kit. grin
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RyCeCuBe
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RyCeCuBe May 10, 4:19am - #175408 

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Originally Posted by fusi0n
Originally Posted by My Sixth Gear
lmao GTS will always be faster


true..if both cars are at the same psi level on stock internals. however, if both cars were boosted to their max on stock internals, the GT would make more power, obviously because of the lower compression.

btw..a custom Turbo kit is much cheaper in my opinion. i'm going that route, and my projected cost is 2000-2500 for a full kit. grin


is that along with installation? because that's pretty damn good..better than 35G on a kit n 500 or more for intsall..i was thinkin of that(custom Turbo) for my gt...still thinkin about it..hehe


o and back in highschool i keep hearing the pros say "vtec n Turbo don't mix" n i agree with that. i hear a lot about stock gts engines being brought to the dealer because of blown engines...imagine a mis-shift with a gts Turbo..i just know Turbo gts drivers gotta becareful.

i also heard celica shifters are not driver-friendly, so a short shifter would really help with precise shifting. i mis-shifted once because i was so tense on first day on the track. @ 80 mph i went to 2nd instead of 4th n my rpm jumped all the way to 8500 or 9000 rpm..ooooo ugly..i'm greatful my engine is still runnin today.
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Vampyre
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Vampyre May 10, 4:54am - #175409 

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British Columbia, Canada
Rev limiter is 8400.. wink

The GT being able to handle higher psi with a Turbo certainly is a interesting aspect that could be played in the story of GT vs. GTS and hp numbers don't determine as much as one would think.

I have no idea this theory may be but that extra 40hp the GTS has is more so noticable once you reach your lift, and if you can maintain high rpm after shifting (which is quite hard to shift and hit or keept it at 6000rpm) then the GT pushing more psi. in lower rpms that has a wider powerband could possibly beat the GTS, despite the numbers.

I was on some Performance part site the other day and there was a Turbo kit (that XS one) and it said the GTS would have something like 230hp after the Turbo was installed.. which would be pretty fuckin' nice! Though the kit itself was like $4000 USD. But personally, when it comes to the GTS I'd rather supercharge that sucker and do some other mods, headers, exhaust, ecu, pulley, flywheel, clutch, tires, and I'm not sure what else but you could do port & polish and more expensive stuff like that. Then again, I'm all about how a car handles as opposed to it's top speed and straight line capabilities.

But the Turbo idea is wicked.

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Rexy13
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Rexy13 May 10, 5:07am - #175410 
2004 Red Toyota Celica
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If you upgrade both engines to 2.0L with 8.8:1 CR (which is nice for Turbos) you would have more out of the GTS for a less amount of money. IE the GT would need bored out to fit the pistons needed (82mm) where the GTS is just longer connecting rods. Not to mention the Intake header may need modified on the GT not sure. But all of that is done after you find a place that has iron sleeves for the cylinders because the alumimum block wont be about to handle the added power. Just food for thought.
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TweakedCelica
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TweakedCelica May 10, 7:10am - #175411 
2002 Black Baby! Toyota Celica GT
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Clarion, PA
ummm,, i can't really say which solution would be better. However i can tell you i know where you can get a kit specificly for the GT model smile, its the same kit i have (like i said in my pro, "not installed yet") frown so i can't give you any real details.. The kit came from www.turbo-performance.com if you call ask for Bob, good luck though, he's hard to get ahold of... When i get mine on i'll let you know what the stats are thumbsup

i'm not real sure if that is the correct web address if it doesn't work let me know.
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RyCeCuBe
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RyCeCuBe May 10, 8:32am - #175412 

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Originally Posted by TweakedCelica
ummm,, i can't really say which solution would be better. However i can tell you i know where you can get a kit specificly for the GT model smile, its the same kit i have (like i said in my pro, "not installed yet") frown so i can't give you any real details.. The kit came from www.turbo-performance.com if you call ask for Bob, good luck though, he's hard to get ahold of... When i get mine on i'll let you know what the stats are thumbsup

i'm not real sure if that is the correct web address if it doesn't work let me know.


can't wait
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Illusive
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Illusive May 10, 9:56am - #175413 
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gts head out flows the gt head hands down,
gts has 6 speed and better / higher top end, so if it was a high speed roll gts ownz

anything street driven 0-60 i'd say gt (from experience)
gt's tend to make 200+ tq like nothing
where as our own Turboed gts was the first to break 200 wtq in his gts with 204 wtq on staffords tuner kit, with our tuning of course.

btw if were talking 1/4 gts will ultimately win.
1/8 mile =gt
1/4 mile = gts

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driver
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driver May 10, 10:02am - #175414 

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dragonmage
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dragonmage May 10, 10:28am - #175415 

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tennessee
comeing from some one who has had a gts and now owns a WRX , i think the gts would own the gt. but if the gts had the WRX engine , Turbo, and awd . it would be very cool grin
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mastro543
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mastro543 May 10, 10:55am - #175416 

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^ is ur car an sti?

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dragonmage
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dragonmage May 10, 1:02pm - #175417 

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tennessee
lol it was out of my price range. so i have just a WRX. with a few modds not many yet, but working on it
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greekcelica
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greekcelica May 10, 1:13pm - #175418 

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ya but it would be very hard to keep the GTS at 6000 rpm on a race, I think with a good driver in a gt would win,
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RetroJ84
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RetroJ84 May 10, 1:44pm - #175419 
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illusive...

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ct
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ct May 10, 2:57pm - #175420 

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i've never seen a GT pull 280whp Turbo like smaay did with his GTS...but i thik with enough money people can make their cars as fast as they can afford...

Originally posted by SKOOF:
yoru such a clown, i wish you lived in nyc, i would love to just give you the beating that youve probably never gotten in your life.
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fusi0n
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fusi0n May 10, 4:13pm - #175421 
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yeah..when it comes down to it, its all about the money. but daily driven to each engine's SAFE margin, the GT would produce more power.

also yeah..2000-2500 installed by myself. although that may go up because i've heard of the new GT series of garrett Turbos, and supposedly the GTR turbines are dual ball bearing, so i may ditch my current T3 super 60 for one of those babies. THEN we can talk about making power on a GT w/ a super fast spooling Turbo with efficiencies in our usable RPM ranges grin
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Veilside
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Veilside May 10, 4:34pm - #175422 
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Originally Posted by My Sixth Gear
lmao GTS will always be faster

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Erick
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Erick May 10, 5:23pm - #175423 

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^^^^ wonderful input all of you thumbsup

So in conclusion I'm suspecting the GT Turboed would be best for use as a daily driver and

GTS for track as I've also been reading off the boards the GTS has more problems as compared to the GT??

correct me if I'm wrong confused

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RyCeCuBe
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RyCeCuBe May 10, 6:58pm - #175424 

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^^ that's right, i mean even stock gts has problems when they race too much..that's what i heard from the dealerships. (no hatin i love all celicas equally)

just that i believe gts are better off with a supercharger, or all-motor mods, the GT can handle the turbo a lot better.

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Erick
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Erick May 10, 7:04pm - #175425 

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^^^ alright sounds great grin ..maybe i could just get a tranny swap rather than having to get rid of my first car all together.. thumbsup

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hector
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hector May 10, 7:11pm - #175426 

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nice info!! not that ill get a Turbo anytime soon but still, good stuff guys rice
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qbanprepster21
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qbanprepster21 May 10, 7:42pm - #175427 
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The GT has more tq, it will always have moer tq then the gts unless the gts is supercharged and the gt is stock, with lift coming into the picture with gts, you cant run as high as psi as you can with Turbo, gt also gives more power per psi, the sf kit had 6psi for both gt and gts, and yet gt still had same amount as gts, because it can handle it, then when you put in 8psi, the gt goes 240 easily, all in all, if you want na power, go with gts, but if you want f/i, GT Baby!!!!

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oas
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oas May 10, 7:53pm - #175428 
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can any one eksplain me wath tq is and is it good to have a lot tq or little tq
and wath will a Turbo kit cost with all it content`s needed to fit it and the innstal?
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Erick
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Erick May 10, 8:13pm - #175429 

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Originally Posted by qbanprepster21
The GT has more tq, it will always have moer tq then the gts unless the gts is supercharged and the gt is stock, with lift coming into the picture with gts, you cant run as high as psi as you can with Turbo, gt also gives more power per psi, the sf kit had 6psi for both gt and gts, and yet gt still had same amount as gts, because it can handle it, then when you put in 8psi, the gt goes 240 easily, all in all, if you want na power, go with gts, but if you want f/i, GT Baby!!!!


what is "f/i"

and someone explain torque?.. i know it but dont' know it well enough to give a great simple explanation tongue

LNK
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RyCeCuBe
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RyCeCuBe May 10, 8:22pm - #175430 

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i dunno much about torque, but i like to think of it as how much "muscle" ur car has depending on the size of the engine..basically how much it can pull before hitting top end. mostly you can tell by the engine's displacement, ever wonder why gt's have 125 lb of tq, and gts has only 130? that's because we're both 1.8 L engines, integras also have about the same amount of tq as we do. hp depends on vtec cams and compression ratios

f/i stands for forced induction: supercharge, Turbo, blower anything that forces air into your Intake

hope that helps, good luck!

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Gen7fan
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Gen7fan May 10, 8:24pm - #175431 
2003 silver streak Toyota Celica GT
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Originally Posted by cycocelica
wrong place bro. put it under racing, but to answer it IDK



^^^^LMAO, tool, this the right place. rofl
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gtsbryan
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gtsbryan May 10, 9:56pm - #175432 

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celica isnt the same if it isnt a gts..=)
dont realy care whats better i would still rather have a gts motor...
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Evil_Irish
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Evil_Irish May 10, 10:16pm - #175433 
2004 Absolutely Red Toyota Celica
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I spoke to Smaay a little about the SF Turbo when we were up at Rageimports for the Dyno Day...

If I could get a good ruling from the F/I experts...

My Celi is an 04 GTS completely stock...in about 3 months, I am going to start the mods...

I want fast...but I also want it to last!
And I will have the money to spend...

Turbo or SuperCharged? (or should I stay N/A)?

confused

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Illusive
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Illusive May 10, 10:24pm - #175434 
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Originally Posted by Evil_Irish
I spoke to Smaay a little about the SF Turbo when we were up at Rageimports for the Dyno Day...

If I could get a good ruling from the F/I experts...

My Celi is an 04 GTS completely stock...in about 3 months, I am going to start the mods...

I want fast...but I also want it to last!
And I will have the money to spend...

Turbo or SuperCharged? (or should I stay N/A)?

confused


cant supercharge the 04's with DBW, blitz/trial superchargers use the power FC,

if you want f/i you will have to go sf Turbo, his is the only kit out now that will work on dbw.


also as the comment to the gt making more torque, My gts currently makes more torque than a gt does at any rpm above 2K i make 125wtq at 4K and hold 120-125 till lift and peak at 132 wtq & 7K thats with the pfc i/e

-J

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qbanprepster21
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qbanprepster21 May 13, 6:16pm - #175435 
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if you read the car and driver boost edition, it explains better then i can why the gt is better then the gts for f/i!!!

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Rocketman May 13, 8:07pm - #175436 

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Originally Posted by My Sixth Gear
lmao GTS will always be faster

The boost edition mag had a supercharger in the GT. And yet...it was still slower than a STOCK GTS in the 1/4.
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fusi0n
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fusi0n May 13, 8:39pm - #175437 
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you guys have to basis to compare the two. speed wise, the gts has the advantage because it has more horsepower from the start. however the compession limitations will only let it boost so much on stock internals. however, the GT's lower compression allows it to boost more. more boost = more power obviously. if you guys are comparing the gt and gts Turbo to their fullest potentials stock, the GT is the winner here.

without any other limiting circumstances, its hard to tell because in this case, the amount of money you have determines which is faster. but stock for stock, SAFELY, the GT has the upper hand.
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Krayze
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Krayze May 13, 9:08pm - #175438 

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stock for stock the gt can't push that much more boost tahn the gts 10:1 is almost as bad as 11.5:1. teh extra boost will make up the difference in compression.

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qbanprepster21
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qbanprepster21 May 14, 8:33am - #175439 
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Originally Posted by Krayze

stock for stock the gt can't push that much more boost tahn the gts 10:1 is almost as bad as 11.5:1. teh extra boost will make up the difference in compression.


the gts might have more tq then the gt, but its only 4. The gt haas 126 and the gts has 130. what makes the gt better then the gts is that the gts is a short-stroke that gets its peak 130lbs tq at over 6500rpm, while the long-stroke GT gets its peak tq of 126, at only 4000rpm, the gt is a lot torquier, and when the gt and the gts have the same amount of psi of f/i, the gt gets more hp and tq out of it.

Lets look at the sf Turbo kit for a prime example of the benefits of a gt for f/i. The GT at only 6psi, comes up with 216hp and 180lbs tq, the GTS with 8psi, comes up with 240hp and 170lbs tq, ... do you see it now!!!

And that was only at 6psi, imagine throwing in 8psi for the GT, and you'll have more then 240hp for the gt, and oh yeah, a heck of a lot more tq... thumbsup thumbsup

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fusi0n May 14, 6:15pm - #175440 
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couldn't have said it better myself qbanprepster.

people fail to realize the internal aspects of the motor when analyzing the effects of forced induction. its not like an Intake wheere you slap it on and bam thats it. there's a whole science to Turbocharging a vehicle, and the GT is more ideal to boost than the gts. the response to the SF Turbo kit in respect to torque proves that, GTS = higher hp gain, less torque gain and GT = less hp gain, higher torque gain. i would much rather have torque than horsepower.
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qbanprepster21
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qbanprepster21 May 14, 6:32pm - #175441 
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Originally Posted by fusi0n

couldn't have said it better myself qbanprepster.

people fail to realize the internal aspects of the motor when analyzing the effects of forced induction. its not like an Intake wheere you slap it on and bam thats it. there's a whole science to Turbocharging a vehicle, and the GT is more ideal to boost than the gts. the response to the SF Turbo kit in respect to torque proves that, GTS = higher hp gain, less torque gain and GT = less hp gain, higher torque gain. i would much rather have torque than horsepower.


thank you, in all aspects as well, the gt doesnt lose that much less hp, you said it gains more tq, ...but it also gains more hp as well, remember, thats the dyno for six psi, so if you match up to 8 psi, for both cars, your obviuosly looking at more tq, duh, but you will also have more psi than 240 taht the 8psi for the gts gave, so, you gain more HP and more TQ as well!! So...back to my statement, GT = Better for F/I, GTS = Better for N/A, And again thanks for understanding me and agreeing with me and that some people just dont get it!!

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spaztikid
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spaztikid May 14, 6:34pm - #175442 
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Erick May 14, 6:40pm - #175443 

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only downfall i keep seeing with the GTS is there seems to be more things to worry about as comapred to GT which have no lift bolts and mis shifting problems for the average driver =P correct me if i'm wrong, so with that a GT seems ideal use in terms of f/i

Actually my friend was telling me it would be better to Turbocharge a GT over a GTS I forget what exactly but it's basically what you said, qbanprepster21 grin

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DarkMatter May 15, 4:01am - #175444 

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Originally Posted by spaztikid
why wont this thread die


hey don't be hatin on my thread frown
the more people post, the more i learn about the differences between GT n GTS grin
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