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Lucky_317
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Lucky_317

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Apr 1, 1:59pm - #142144 
Apexi Power FC for the Celica GTS - Q&A

OK, this is kinda the BUZZ product right now and since I'm making a lot of posts on it I'm makin this as the tell all power FC thread.

I have a GTS so I will only comment on the gts version.

I will post all the vids in this thread and explanations.

Keep in mind I did not create a lot of this information.

you can thank:
Illusive
smaay
boosted 2.0
Monkey Wrench Racing

=================================

Mods can we make this a sticky?



Best 60' 1.959 best 1/4 - 13.7 @ 101mph
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Lucky_317
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Apr 1, 2:03pm - #142145 
http://www.ksbservices.com/powerfc/8600shift.wmv

15 - 100 mph shifting at 8600 except in 1st cause I didnt wanna worry about torque steer since I was holding the cam and driving.

15 - 100 in 11 seconds with Intake, no muffler, power fc

=========================================================

It's $950 if you buy the power fc from groupbuy4celica

MWR's maps are like $50

if you want to do like we do and change maps you will need the data logit software and cables from MWR for around $339

to retune those mwr maps specifically to your car figure $500

MWR = www.monkeywrenchracing.com

======================================================

we made these vids to show the differences in power between the cars and to test the new tuning we did...


run #1 -
We took the base tuning maps from mwr stuck them on my power FC and took the new map we made and ran the 2 cars with a passenger in each car bout wieghing around 215 lbs so weight was even. you can see I pull on the shifting but the red car is still able to win even with a shifting disadvantage. we end around 120 mph.

www.ksbservices.com/powerfc/smaaymapvsmwrmap.wmv

Run #2 -

Just for fun we used the better map and ran the other celica that has I/E and a 50 shot. This race was a little more uneven and just for fun. The nitrous celica had no interior in the rear and passenger seat out. I had a 215 lb passenger + the seat and a whole hatch full of stuff we brought for the trip up there. SO I had the weight AND HP disadvantage. we hit around 110 mph.

www.ksbservices.com/powerfc/pfcvs50shot.wmv

these vids were done at 4,000 ft elevation. all vids were taken from inside my car.


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Lucky_317
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Apr 1, 2:04pm - #142146 
Courtesy of lost angel ...

Yep, it does alot, and does seem easy too install:
The Power FC proudly stands as A'PEX's answer to the constraints and limitations associated with most piggy-back style fuel controllers. The Power FC is a complete, stand alone, total engine management system capable of handling virtually anything thrown in its path. From multiple point fuel and ignition control to VTEC engagement (Honda applications) and boost settings, the Power FC is capable of accommodating even the most demanding Performance enthusiasts.

The Power FC replaces the factory ECU and controls all engine parameters.(Off road use only, no OBD-II) Installation is as easy as replacing the factory ECU. The factory engine harness does not need to be replaced and all critical accessories such as air conditioning continue to function. By using the optional FC COMMANDER, the user can adjust and modify a wide range of settings. By changing various parameters and data, the Power FC will adapt to any of your Performance needs. Since there is no need to upgrade ROM chips or trade in ECU's, the factory ECU can be kept by the original user.

The Power FC operates off of three Main Menus. These menus are : Monitor, Setting, and ETC.
In Monitor Mode, the Commander can display up to 10 parameters of data in real time. Monitor Mode can display:
Engine RPM
Ignition Timing
Vehicle Speed
Air Flow Voltage (Pressure Sensor Voltage)
Injector Duty Cycle
Boost
Knocking Level
Battery Voltage
Intake Air Temp
Water Temp
In addition, there are 4 display patterns allowing 1-8 parameters to be shown on screen at once. The data displays in numerical real time values with the option of a real time 10 second graph display. Peak Hold values and Display Hold functions only require the touch of a button. The Map Trace Mode allows Ghost Map Tracing of the Fuel Correction and Ignition Timing maps. This allows the user to visually see what point of the map is being used in real time. The Ghost Map Trace function leaves markers on the used portions of the map for easy reference.
Setting Mode allows full access to the 20x20 ignition timing and fuel correction maps. The user can adjust any portion of this map in 5x5 sections. Air flow correction values can be entered for vehicles upgrading air flow meters. Injector pulse correction menu is used when upgrading injectors on the engine. The Acceleration Enrichment Correction function improves response under hard and sudden acceleration. The Cranking Fuel Injection menu corrects the amount of fuel when the engine is being cranked, or when the water temperature is cold. A separate Water Temp menu allows fuel correction according to water temperature. The RPM menu allows rev limiter settings and idle RPM levels. Access menus also vary according to specialty engines. Rotary engine Power FC's accommodate leading and trailing ignition maps. Honda engines Power FC's allow for VTEC control. Complete boost control is possible by using the optional Boost Control Kit (Not necessary for vehicles that come factory Turbocharged.). Changing data is easy: just access the desired point on the map or data, and push the FC COMMANDER keys in the appropriate direction.
The Power FC also comes preprogrammed with several base maps. (Currently with Japan Domestic Market Vehicle Maps. Minor initial tuning may be required.) This makes the initial tuning process much quicker. As with all other fuel controllers, the POWER FC should be tuned on a dynomometer by a trained professional. A high grade air/ fuel ratio monitor is also recommended during tuning to ensure best results.

Available Immediately!!!!!!

And heres MWR's Map for the chip:
Linked Image




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Lucky_317
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Apr 1, 2:12pm - #142147 
here are actual graphs taken same day on my car and illusives car...

he was running way rich due to the str8 pipe so I dynoed higher.

Linked Image

Here is my car alone...

Linked Image

Run #1 was 4th gear stock ECU
Run #2 was Power fc (no fan) 3rd gear
run 3 was power FC (fan) 4th gear

^^^ the maps we used were the base MWR maps.

the vids I posted on top is using our new homade maps (made by smaay) he took the base MWR map and modified it to be more aggressive.



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VeilCeli
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Apr 1, 2:14pm - #142148 
Can anyone attest to what this will put out on a GT? Also , what are the main differences between the ApexI FC and the Greddy controller that MWR sells? Are there any disadvantages to the power FC ? and do you need the little controller box with the screen ?


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Lucky_317
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Apr 1, 2:16pm - #142149 
The power FC CAN work with the GT but I have no info on that.

==========================

I will have track time results after saturday of what the power fc and our map can do in the 1/4 mile.


so now if you have questions ask here so we can avoid the 50 million power FC threads. Thanx!



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Lucky_317
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Apr 1, 2:19pm - #142150 
Originally Posted by VeilCeli
Can anyone attest to what this will put out on a GT? Also , what are the main differences between the ApexI FC and the Greddy controller that MWR sells? Are there any disadvantages to the power FC ? and do you need the little controller box with the screen ?


thats the power FC commander. if you plan on using the base map only then no you do not need the commander or the datalogit.

I do not have info on the greddy but I can tell you I bought the power FC with no regrets.

groupbuy4celica has the power FC cheaper then MWR wink


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spaztikid
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Apr 1, 2:36pm - #142151 
question...


are you able to change timing with the PFC?


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Lucky_317
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Apr 1, 2:53pm - #142152 
yes


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Illusive
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Apr 1, 4:09pm - #142153 
Originally Posted by spaztikid

question...


are you able to change timing with the PFC?



there is full controll over timing, dwell, fuel, injectors, part throttle, idle, vvt, vvtl, (even boost),hot/cold correction, dummy lights(check engine,knock,max inj duty..ect)

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stefanoc
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Apr 2, 2:23am - #142154 
it is expensive though. i mean 950 for the tool, 500 to repreogram. 50$ to buy a map. so if you have Intake, and if you have Intake exhaust and header, it is better to use a map that is set up for that to give you more gains? and does MWR have good maps or can best ones be done by someone?

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Illusive
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Apr 2, 10:35am - #142155 
Originally Posted by stefanoc
it is expensive though. i mean 950 for the tool, 500 to repreogram. 50$ to buy a map. so if you have Intake, and if you have Intake exhaust and header, it is better to use a map that is set up for that to give you more gains? and does MWR have good maps or can best ones be done by someone?


the numbers lucky put up are like worst case senario for tuning.

If someone knows what they are doing it shouldn't take more than an hour to get the a/f ratio / timing changed to make more power from the base MWR maps.

I'll end up paying about 50-65hr for dyno time, and I'm planning on doing 2 hours, so i can play with the vvt and try to make power with that also.

total cost for me will be just over 1K for nearly 10peak hp, and 15-20whp in the midrange + 8600 limiter.

in all honestly its the next best mod after a CAI, for the gts, imho


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Apr 2, 10:59am - #142156 
the gains sound nice, and yea sounds like the best mod to me. but you really need to dyno it everytime you wana edit the mapping? and lets say you edited ur own map for AEM CAI, DC headers, TRD exhaust. can someone get a full benefit from the same mapping you have if they have the same mods or does it differ from each car? and you said that you need to buy something to edit ur mapping? doesnt that come with the ecu already or you have to buy it separately? sorry not familiar with anything like this and dont know shit about dynos and much about cars specs, but i do know how to read a dyno rolleyes

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Lucky_317
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Apr 2, 12:29pm - #142157 
well look at what we did. we took the base map from MWR which IMO is VERY good for what it is a "base" map. meaning something to start from. we made a new map and swapped that map in and out of other cars with similar butt dyno results. However every car is different so if you are ok with the bare minimum then yeah you just trade maps and be done with it.

If you want to do it right youshould take the best map, dyno it with your car and then tune it as it needs for your specific car.

and yeah like I said those dynos I posted were the base maps with no extra tuning done. and as you can see on the comparsion 2 similarly modded cars dynoed very different. also we dynoed diff then the mwr car cause they had the Injen CAI. we use AEM.


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LostAngel
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Apr 2, 12:47pm - #142158 
Originally Posted by Lucky_317
Courtesy of lost angel ...

Thanks for the props!

I'm really happy that you are sharing all information you have personally got from using the PFC. It makes it a lot easier for people too think 'wow, theres actually someone we know that has it.' You post great videos, along with detailed information on what your going through. thumbsup

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Lucky_317
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Apr 2, 5:29pm - #142159 
still no sticky??? I gets no kinda lovin round here. lol


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Apr 2, 5:50pm - #142160 
This info is GREAT!!! I am weak in the computer part of this stuff, but am really interested in getting a grip on it.

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Speed4TheNeed
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Apr 3, 6:42am - #142161 
i think the best thing about it is the increase in torque in low rpms.

also, for 10 extra whp total, $1000 is about on average with most bolt-ons...so the hp-to-$ ratio isn't really that bad. thumbsup

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Apr 3, 12:21pm - #142162 
okaaaaaaaaaaay. Let's see if anyone can help me...
My friend had a WRX that was totalled. He had a apexi fc that is laying around his room.
I dunno if it is the same, but he told me he thinks it goes for about 250$ (he bought the wrx used, and it came on it).
Is he extremely mistaken with the price? could it be a diff thing? Could that one be modified to fit my gts ( is it universal?) ?

Thank you. I'm rick james, bitch.

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Lucky_317
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Apr 4, 9:08am - #142163 
^^ no it wont work they make them to fit in the stock ecu harness so no ou cant even modify it. besides the fact that its programmed different.
==================================

also saying it only got 10 whp is not doing it justice. raised limiter, fully retunable, 20 - 30 whp in the midrange, 15 - 20 wheel torque in the midrange, launching in lift...

that was withthe base maps. lol I bet we gained quite a bit over that. wink



also FYI I ran a 13.740 @ 101.13 with a bad 60' smile so yes I'd say its a worth while mod.


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Speed4TheNeed
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Apr 4, 10:38am - #142164 
Originally Posted by Lucky_317
^^ no it wont work they make them to fit in the stock ecu harness so no ou cant even modify it. besides the fact that its programmed different.
==================================

also saying it only got 10 whp is not doing it justice. raised limiter, fully retunable, 20 - 30 whp in the midrange, 15 - 20 wheel torque in the midrange, launching in lift...

that was withthe base maps. lol I bet we gained quite a bit over that. wink



also FYI I ran a 13.740 @ 101.13 with a bad 60' smile so yes I'd say its a worth while mod.


i hope you didnt take what i said as 'only' 10 whp. i think it's an awesome addition and thats how i meant to portray it.

and congrats on the 13.7...THAT is one heck of a feat. thumbsup

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Celica_Sprinter
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Apr 4, 4:17pm - #142165 
I was told by a friend of mine that the original ECU is able to calibrate automatically for Barometric pressure differences, changes in humidity, and all other sort of variables that one may encounter during everyday driving.

Does the Power FC have this capability as well?

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Lucky_317
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Apr 4, 5:31pm - #142166 
the power fc can adjust to temperature.


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Apr 4, 6:53pm - #142167 
great info, i have seen most of it though, tks for gathering it all up...

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cRodz
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Apr 4, 8:02pm - #142168 
Originally Posted by cRodz
okaaaaaaaaaaay. Let's see if anyone can help me...
My friend had a WRX that was totalled. He had a apexi fc that is laying around his room.
I dunno if it is the same, but he told me he thinks it goes for about 250$ (he bought the wrx used, and it came on it).
Is he extremely mistaken with the price? could it be a diff thing? Could that one be modified to fit my gts ( is it universal?) ?

Thank you. I'm rick james, bitch.


Anyone???? cry cry

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Speed4TheNeed
Caleb
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Apr 4, 9:21pm - #142169 
Originally Posted by cRodz
Originally Posted by cRodz
okaaaaaaaaaaay. Let's see if anyone can help me...
My friend had a WRX that was totalled. He had a apexi fc that is laying around his room.
I dunno if it is the same, but he told me he thinks it goes for about 250$ (he bought the wrx used, and it came on it).
Is he extremely mistaken with the price? could it be a diff thing? Could that one be modified to fit my gts ( is it universal?) ?

Thank you. I'm rick james, bitch.


Anyone???? cry cry


lucky has already answered your question. scroll up a bit thumbsup

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cRodz
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Apr 4, 9:41pm - #142170 
Originally Posted by sPeEd4tHeNeEd
Originally Posted by cRodz
Originally Posted by cRodz
okaaaaaaaaaaay. Let's see if anyone can help me...
My friend had a WRX that was totalled. He had a apexi fc that is laying around his room.
I dunno if it is the same, but he told me he thinks it goes for about 250$ (he bought the wrx used, and it came on it).
Is he extremely mistaken with the price? could it be a diff thing? Could that one be modified to fit my gts ( is it universal?) ?

Thank you. I'm rick james, bitch.


Anyone???? cry cry


lucky has already answered your question. scroll up a bit thumbsup


oh... rofl...yeah i knew he had... (BS):P
thanks!
Soooooo I can... Then I have to get it retuned...
NEXT QUESTION grin
Do I have to send it somewhere to get it retuned?
ThANK U ALREADY thumbsup

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Lucky_317
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Apr 5, 10:46am - #142171 
^^ NO, you can't.

you can have MWR tune it with base maps and then you'll have to look around your area for an apexi tuning shop. you can fina a list on their website.

or you can wait and buy a pretuned one and not bother retuning it.


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808CeLiCa
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LaHaiNa,MaUi
Apr 7, 2:24am - #142172 
Whoa...13.7 dam!!! okay im very lost on information on the power fc...I have a 2002 celica and my redline is 7800...whats the redline for the other celica's? also they say that the 2002 celica model has a redline so it cant pass 7800...with the power fc can it still be made to redline at 7600? So if I wanted to purchase the power FC will I have to set it up myself or do I just call monkeywrench racing and will they do it for me?? if both ways...which way is better...letting them do it or doing it myself? whats the price?


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Illusive
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Apr 7, 9:15am - #142173 
Originally Posted by 808CeLiCa
Whoa...13.7 dam!!! okay im very lost on information on the power fc...I have a 2002 celica and my redline is 7800...whats the redline for the other celica's? also they say that the 2002 celica model has a redline so it cant pass 7800...with the power fc can it still be made to redline at 7600? So if I wanted to purchase the power FC will I have to set it up myself or do I just call monkeywrench racing and will they do it for me?? if both ways...which way is better...letting them do it or doing it myself? whats the price?


if you want to hold off a bit, we are concidering selling our maps preloaded on the pfc through groupbuy4celica (karnage motorsports)

and they work with the 02 celicas, no need to swap the knock sensor, just drop the pfc right in and your good to go with 8600 rpm redline smile


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Apr 7, 9:43am - #142174 
I've got MWR's I/E PFC installed on my 2k2 GTS. So I can provide some insight as well. Right now I wanna know if anyone has the commander and what they use it for? I would like something that I can use to moniter stats.


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Lucky_317
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Apr 7, 9:54am - #142175 
^^ you'll want the datalogit then. way more functional then the commander.

also if you only have the mwr map and havent had it retuned yet then you are missing out on all the fun. lol in lift you'll still have stock power. and for some reason be a little slow in 4th gear.


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808CeLiCa
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LaHaiNa,MaUi
Apr 8, 1:31am - #142176 
So when will it be available? how much will it be? So the PFC will be tuned for my car? or do I need to tell you what I have installed on my car? also why would i want the datalogit? what the difference with that and the commander?? so why do have to bring it back to mwr? why does it not have power on lift and 4th gear? is it only for 02 celica?

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Lucky_317
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Apr 9, 9:06am - #142177 
^^ whoa. lol

We are putting generic tuning on them that will work on all of the celicas. it's always best to have a shop fine tune it to your car since all cars are not the same.

the datalogit allows you to store different maps for different things like if you want a track map and a street map. you cant do that with the commander.



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GTSbyTRD
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Apr 12, 8:40am - #142178 
What kind of affect does this have on the engine components?


Raising the redline from 7800 to 8600 is quite a raise. Will this decrease the life of my celi?


"I didnt realize girls had that much plumbing down there. I saw a diagram of it and it looked like a map for six flags."
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Apr 12, 8:46am - #142179 
Originally Posted by GTSbyTRD
What kind of affect does this have on the engine components?


Raising the redline from 7800 to 8600 is quite a raise. Will this decrease the life of my celi?


i was woundring that to

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Lucky_317
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Apr 12, 9:34am - #142180 
anytime you add Performance parts to your car you risk the longevity of your motor. if you are worried about that then dont do it wink I like mine at 8600 so thats where I put it. If you feel safer with 7800 then by all means leave it.

also keep in mind its not a difference in strength of the motor that makes the 2002 different from a 2000 wink stock on an 00 is 8400 I don't think the extra 200 is gonna put that much additional strain. but you should stick with what ever makes you feel safe.


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GTSbyTRD
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Apr 12, 12:57pm - #142181 
So, my redline is 8400? Or thats my cutoff?



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Lucky_317
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Apr 12, 5:36pm - #142182 
fuel cut in 2000 - 2001 & 2003 models is 8400.


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Cullowhee, NC
Apr 12, 10:45pm - #142183 
I would so buy a power FC but i have an extended warranty that runs for 24000 more miles and that would void it...i see the power gains, any other reccomendations for me part wise (there's 7 or 8 cellys at my college and im tryin to sleep them all with the best of the best parts)

i was thinking a fidanza flywheel
i don't know about the exhaust yet i need help
a new msi ignition coil

plus im runnin 50k miles i need a tune up... if you have anything you could tell me to get me to not buy the wrong parts then it would be much appreciated...


vvtL-i till i die

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 396
Illusive
Member
Illusive
Member

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 396
Southern California
Apr 13, 2:36am - #142184 
Originally Posted by 01gts_hedstash
I would so buy a power FC but i have an extended warranty that runs for 24000 more miles and that would void it...i see the power gains, any other reccomendations for me part wise (there's 7 or 8 cellys at my college and im tryin to sleep them all with the best of the best parts)

i was thinking a fidanza flywheel
i don't know about the exhaust yet i need help
a new msi ignition coil

plus im runnin 50k miles i need a tune up... if you have anything you could tell me to get me to not buy the wrong parts then it would be much appreciated...


vvtL-i till i die


you do realize it takes less than 2 min to change the power fc to normal ecu, and its undetectable that you removed/installed your stock one for the power fc for any warranty work right??


Controlled Inertia
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8.831 @ 79.8 mph (best 1/8 new motor 12/02/04)
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Jae
Senior Member
Jae

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2001 Toyota Celica

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 583
palm springs, burbank CA
Apr 13, 2:20pm - #142185 
does it work on auto?
i don't see why not if you have mapping for autos...

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 396
Illusive
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Illusive
Member

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 396
Southern California
Apr 13, 3:11pm - #142186 
Originally Posted by Jae
does it work on auto?
i don't see why not if you have mapping for autos...


stock ecu controlls the automatic, power fc does not have that functionality, it wasn't built for an auto.


Controlled Inertia
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8.831 @ 79.8 mph (best 1/8 new motor 12/02/04)
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GTSbyTRD
Member
GTSbyTRD

Member
2000 Toyota Celica

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 311
Ft. Wayne, Indiana
Apr 13, 8:02pm - #142187 
I'll probably wait till I pay my car off.

Or untill I get Intake/headers/exhaust so i get get it premapped with those settings.

No one around here does tuning that I know of, and I sure as hell dont have the skills.


"I didnt realize girls had that much plumbing down there. I saw a diagram of it and it looked like a map for six flags."
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 583
Jae
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Jae

Senior Member
2001 Toyota Celica

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 583
palm springs, burbank CA
Apr 14, 2:44am - #142188 
but doesn't the blitz s/c kit comes with apexi power fc?
and they both have auto and manual

Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 517
Krayze
Senior Member
Krayze

Senior Member

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Posts: 517
Pittsburgh, PA
Apr 25, 9:19am - #142189 
okay here is a question i thought of that i don't think wasa asked.

with teh pfc when teh rev limtier kicks in is it a fuel cut like wiht the stock ecu or is it a spark cut.

i know the stock rev limit was set by the ecu so i assume that with the pfc you shoudl eb able to change it.

i would really like to know because i would feel safer knowign it was a spark cut and not fuel cut.


67 mustang fastback
289 v8
soon to have 5 spd
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 6
coronaman247
New Member
coronaman247

New Member

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 6
Gainesville, FL
Apr 27, 7:25pm - #142190 
As for an exhaust, I would recommend either the TRD or the Veilside exhaust. Both have the most fluid torque reading throughout the rpm's. And as for peak hp, take it as you may, they are both at the top. Veilside is significantly lighter in weight. I don't know how the Veilside sounds though, I do know that the TRD has a low, controlled sound. The TRD does NOT sound ricey at all.

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 396
Illusive
Member
Illusive
Member

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Posts: 396
Southern California
Apr 28, 12:27am - #142191 
Originally Posted by Krayze
okay here is a question i thought of that i don't think wasa asked.

with teh pfc when teh rev limtier kicks in is it a fuel cut like wiht the stock ecu or is it a spark cut.

i know the stock rev limit was set by the ecu so i assume that with the pfc you shoudl eb able to change it.

i would really like to know because i would feel safer knowign it was a spark cut and not fuel cut.


limiter is a fuel cut


Controlled Inertia
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8.831 @ 79.8 mph (best 1/8 new motor 12/02/04)
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Lucky_317
Specialist
Lucky_317

Specialist
2000 Toyota Celica

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,242
Fontana, CA
Apr 28, 8:52am - #142192 
Originally Posted by coronaman247
As for an exhaust, I would recommend either the TRD or the Veilside exhaust. Both have the most fluid torque reading throughout the rpm's. And as for peak hp, take it as you may, they are both at the top. Veilside is significantly lighter in weight. I don't know how the Veilside sounds though, I do know that the TRD has a low, controlled sound. The TRD does NOT sound ricey at all.


no muffler has the same gains as the TRD exhaust and weighs less then ANY exhaust system smile lol


Best 60' 1.959 best 1/4 - 13.7 @ 101mph
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Krayze
Senior Member
Krayze

Senior Member

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Posts: 517
Pittsburgh, PA
Apr 28, 7:36pm - #142193 
is there away you can change it from fuel cut to spark cut?

i mean it is a new ecu adn you are supposed to bea ble to change the parameters was just curious cause i hat ehavign a fuel cut makes it go lean.


67 mustang fastback
289 v8
soon to have 5 spd
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