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Kim
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Kim Apr 26, 6:14am - #13605 
2002 Red Toyota Celica GT
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weisco pitsons

hey does anyone know the horseper gain from getting the weisco pistons for my GT engine. sock compression ratio for the GT engine is 10.1 and the weisco pistons will make it 11.1 stock compression ratio for the GTS engine is 11.5.1 so hopefully it can give my engine about 20 hp from raising the compression by one. so does anyone know for sure. monkeywrench.com has them for $500, i think that will be my next mod. smile

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glitch
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glitch Apr 26, 12:06pm - #13606 
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there was this one dood from europe that used to post on here and he raised his compression with aftermarket pistons... i forgot his name tho confused

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Grand-Touring-Dan
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Grand-Touring-Dan Apr 26, 5:06pm - #13607 
2001 Spec Blue Toyota Celica
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Quote:
there was this one dood from europe that used to post on here and he raised his compression with aftermarket pistons... i forgot his name tho
Well thats a lot of help thumbsup

[ 04-26-2003, 10:08 AM: Message edited by: Grand-Touring-Dan ]
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RicePowered
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RicePowered Apr 26, 5:12pm - #13608 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Grand-Touring-Dan:
Quote:
there was this one dood from europe that used to post on here and he raised his compression with aftermarket pistons... i forgot his name tho
Well thats a lot of help thumbsup
rofl rofl Give him a break ... he tried.

the best way to know the horsepower gain would be to do it and then dyno your car because almost no one has done this.
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c2gas
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c2gas Apr 26, 9:32pm - #13609 

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Well, that guy from Europe was me, but I don`t think the comp. raise to 11:1 would make 20 HP itself. The thing I bought the pistons, cos I want to give a real kick to the engine with the nitro, and tho oem pistons and rods are weak. I`m sure they`d break if you pass the ~200 HP.
If you want serious mods later than it worth, but you have to know wich way to go with the compressio. lower it to have a turbo later or try my way. To tell you the truth I caheged my mind. I spent so much f..ing time with many small problems I gave up, and at the moment I`m turbo-ing the car. Same much f..ing time but surely better results.
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glitch
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glitch Apr 26, 10:11pm - #13610 
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don't start with me spidey [Mad] spineyes

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c2gas
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c2gas Apr 26, 10:40pm - #13611 

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Btw the 1:11 pistons itself (I guess) would give you ~7-11 HP gain. Bought my pistons from monkeywrench.com (Matt)too.
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Grand-Touring-Dan
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Grand-Touring-Dan Apr 27, 2:01am - #13612 
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Come on Glitch. Just a little sarcasm. No harm done. cheers
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FX-MAN
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FX-MAN Apr 27, 3:14am - #13613 
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c2gas,
I am thinking about waiting for the TRD supercharger but where did you find the turbo kit for the GT? You also said

"To tell you the truth I changed my mind. I spent so much f..ing time with many small problems I gave up"

Do you mean the pistons gave you too many small problems?

The other question is if you raise the compression above stock, will that make it not so good to supercharge if TRD fitts their VVT-i supercharger into our engine bays?

Also.. if you are doing a custom turbo on your GT (6 speed???), how are they getting around the crappy plastic Intake ports?

[ 04-26-2003, 08:17 PM: Message edited by: FX-MAN ]

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glitch
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glitch Apr 27, 5:13am - #13614 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Grand-Touring-Dan:
Come on Glitch. Just a little sarcasm. No harm done. cheers
cheers

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GTSHawk
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GTSHawk Apr 27, 5:28am - #13615 
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So, if I wanted to lower the compression on my GTS in order to turbo my car, would you suggest in getting the wiseco pistons?
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GTSHawk Apr 27, 5:35am - #13616 
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oh, and c2, where did you get yer c.heads ported and modified?
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Kim
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Kim Apr 27, 7:18am - #13617 
2002 Red Toyota Celica GT
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hey c2gas thanks for all the info, but could you answer some questions:
1. what does modifying your cams do?
2. what will the rods do?
3. after modding the engine with cams, crower rods, and upgraded pistions what is the total weight gain? do you feel a big difference? how does it effect fuel econ?

I want to build my cars engine. i want my car to be naturally aspired, so i don't want any turbo or nitrous. so i want to have higher compression and boost up the engine in mid range. thanks again for the info. thumbsup

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glitch Apr 27, 7:24am - #13618 
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kim, if u'r going all motor, then modifying your cams allows you to make air and exhaust flow more efficient at a certain point in the RPM range. this is all at the cost of shittier performance somewhere else in the RPM range however. so you must mod your cam profiles to compliment the RPMs you spend most of your driving in thumbsup

[ 04-27-2003, 12:26 AM: Message edited by: glitch ]

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c2gas
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c2gas Apr 27, 8:42am - #13619 

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Quote:
Originally posted by FX-MAN:
c2gas,
I am thinking about waiting for the TRD supercharger but where did you find the turbo kit for the GT? You also said

-It`s gonna be custom, using the stronger(220 Hp) 1800cc Audi TT`s turbo with original cams at the start.

"To tell you the truth I changed my mind. I spent so much f..ing time with many small problems I gave up"

Do you mean the pistons gave you too many small problems?

-Yes and no. The pistons were not made to use with a different cam, so when the cams were in position in higher Rpm the valves would hit the higher top piston. Then comes lowering the piston, but if you lower it where is the 11:1 comp.

The other question is if you raise the compression above stock, will that make it not so good to supercharge if TRD fitts their VVT-i supercharger into our engine bays?

-Right. Raising the comp. is bad for t. or s.charging. When we took appart the engine again,bc of yhe previous problem, I decided to lower the piston and use the turbo. Pistons lowered back to ~9.7-10.3.

Also.. if you are doing a custom turbo on your GT (6 speed???), how are they getting around the crappy plastic Intake ports?

-Good q.I`ve changed them once, bc of some bad noise, but I still believe they are good enoght to handle a 6-10 Psi.
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c2gas
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c2gas Apr 27, 8:47am - #13620 

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Quote:
Originally posted by GTSHawk:
So, if I wanted to lower the compression on my GTS in order to turbo my car, would you suggest in getting the wiseco pistons?
Deffenetly yes! Good quality! But get the turbo first and order than. U lose power w.o the turbo (~-10-15 Hp)
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c2gas
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c2gas Apr 27, 9:14am - #13621 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Kim:
hey c2gas thanks for all the info, but could you answer some questions:
1. what does modifying your cams do?

- THE CAR`D RUN BETTER IN HIGHER RPM, YOU HAVE TO MOD THE ECU AS WELL NOT TO STOP THE ENGINE AT 6.500.

2. what will the rods do?

-CROWER RODS ARE NEARLY THE SAME WEIGHT AS OEM, BUT 100 TIMES STRONGER, I`M SURE THEY`D WEAR (NOT BREAK) MORE HP WE CAN EVER DO.ALSO GOOD WHEN YOU WANT HIGHER RPM THEN 6500(ORIGINAL)-THE RODS IN HIGHER RPM `BECOME LONGER` DUE TO THE VERY FAST UP AND DOWN MOVING, SO SOONER OR LATER PISTON AND VALVES`D HAVE A MEETING.

3. after modding the engine with cams, crower rods, and upgraded pistions what is the total weight gain? do you feel a big difference? how does it effect fuel econ?

-THERE IS NO WEIGHT GAIN( MAX FEW GRAMM). IT`S CORRECT IF I SAY, I FELT THE DIFFERENCE, BUT THINK IT`S NOT GONNA BE FINISHED. NOW TURBO FABRICATION IS ON.

I want to build my cars engine. i want my car to be naturally aspired, so i don't want any turbo or nitrous. so i want to have higher compression and boost up the engine in mid range. thanks again for the info.

-IF YOU DO SO, THE MOST IMPORTANT PIECE IS THE CAM. YOU HAVE TO FIND SOMEBODY PROFESSIONAL WHO MAKE A CUSTOM CAM OR A REGRID (VALVE CLEARENCE HAVE TO BE SOLVED AFTER REGRID) FOR YOU. AS YOU WISH TELL HIM WHERE YOU WANT MORE POWER. THAN IF YOU ORDER PISTONS FROM WISECO, LET THEM KNOW THE DETAILS OF YOUR NEW CAM. I MADE MY MISTAKE HERE.

thumbsup
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Kim
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Kim Apr 27, 9:38am - #13622 
2002 Red Toyota Celica GT
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oh okay thanks csgas and you too glitch. info was very helpful. so if i get cams i will have to specify where (in RPM range) i want power? so theoretically i could say i need more power around 3500-5500, that would be possible? hmm i have a gt auto so i think that i will have better results by just getting a faster car. DAMN shoudlda got that GTS six-speed!! [Mad] Man, my dad was like "i don't want you to drive a stick shift cause you will damage the tranny and get into an accident because you won't know how to drive it." that was bullshit cause now i know hat driving stick ain't even that hard, and ten grand of the cash was MINE so i shoulda had more say in buy MY car! man this is bullshit! [Mad] oh well so i guess there won't be an all engine celi in bellflower. wave

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GTSHawk Apr 27, 9:45am - #13623 
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thank you c2, you have been a good help to me too.
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glitch
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glitch Apr 27, 11:06am - #13624 
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yeah, since i haven't found any aftermarket cams for the GT, you will have to go to a shop that does custom cams. usually people sacrifice low end torque to increase power at the higher RPMs since the engine is always in the high range in most types of racing anyway.

to feel nice power while street cruising i recommend cams that maximize the mid RPM range. the GT's engine specializes in this... (it actually has more torque than the GTS in the low and mid range thumbsup ) so it all depends on what you want...

that sucks how you couldn't get a stick shift. i feel for you frown personally i think stick shift gets you more involved with driving... it's not a distraction at all !!!

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SHI_GTS Apr 27, 12:56pm - #13625 
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the gt has more torque at mid range... well that depends on what you call mid range.

gt stock dyno ~ http://www.newcelica.org/other/dyno/daksgt/dyno1.jpg

GTS stock dyno
http://www.newcelica.org/other/dyno/sonic/dynorun.jpg

maybe at one small point it does... 40 more hp in the gts is what matters

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glitch Apr 27, 4:58pm - #13626 
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yeah, but you have to hit lift to even feel it frown

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SHI_GTS Apr 28, 1:39pm - #13627 
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When I'm racing im always in lift.. and relook at the dyno, the hole powerband except for around 4,000 for made 500 rpms is higher torque and hp... thisa is dumb to argue.. gts = more power no questions

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EuRoBoYGT Apr 28, 3:06pm - #13628 

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ok they have three types of pistons turbo 8:8:1 but you guys said you will lose hp if you don't have a turbo... also there r the nitrous 10:1 (will you lose hp with those if you don't have nos or you will get a better gain the the n/a pistons wich r 11:1 or should i just get the n/a pistons and wait for them to finaly come out with a turbo and then get the turbo pistons

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now i'm blaming you for everything
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c2gas
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c2gas Apr 28, 3:33pm - #13629 

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The Wiseco pistons almost the same weight it`s just stronger, so if you have the original comp. that just do nothing (a little HP gain, cose it fits in more perfectly), BUT you can turbo a car with 1:10 comp.(any higher is not recomended). Only problem that the weaker part is the rod, so you might want to change it as well before turboing the car.
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FX-MAN
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FX-MAN Apr 28, 3:42pm - #13630 
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David Draper (who is making one of the most prominent and well engineered celica turbo kits) said you can get up to 15psi of boost on stock GT pistons without doing any immediate dammage, his kit only boosts 6psi to protect the longevity of the STOCK engine and transmission (the only exception is the probable need for a better clutch down the road according to him and the cars he has turboed with the kit). This argument is a little off, just because there is this assumtion that you can't turbo stock, but the low compression in the GT will let you safely (with no long term issues) turbo up to 8psi of boost. Just don't go higher unless you upgrade your rods (it's not the pistons that are the problem, the rods will snap under the pressure if you consistantly boost more than 10psi)..

Most people with turbo GT celicas who I have spoken to (custom and kit prototypes) run them at 6 or 7psi for day to day and adjust them to 10 for the track. The only reason IMO to upgrade your pistons is if you plan to push 15-20psi of boost on your daily ride (you would be around 300hp which would be uncomfortable in stop and go IMO, you would have a VERY hard time trying not to spin your tires).

FX-MAN
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glitch
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glitch Apr 29, 7:06am - #13631 
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Quote:
Originally posted by SHI_GTS:
When I'm racing im always in lift.. and relook at the dyno, the hole powerband except for around 4,000 for made 500 rpms is higher torque and hp... thisa is dumb to argue.. gts = more power no questions
okay i didn't know we were arguing... but since you are, first of all i never said the GT had more power than the GTS, just the GT engine has a longer stroke so naturally better torque. it's lift that makes the big difference in horsepower. so yeah, it's dumb to argue.

[ 04-28-2003, 12:07 PM: Message edited by: glitch ]

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SHI_GTS Apr 28, 9:20pm - #13632 
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by glitch:
[QB]yeah, since i haven't found any aftermarket (it actually has more torque than the GTS in the low and mid range thumbsup )

you did say it has more power low end and mid range. The dyno doesnt show that to be true.

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celica01gt Apr 28, 11:19pm - #13633 
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okay old up.. sorry for the ignorance... i keep seeing GT then 6 speed
gt only comes in 5 spd right?
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glitch
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glitch Apr 29, 12:48am - #13634 
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GT comes in 6spd in europe... unfair eh ? frown

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Street Prototype Apr 29, 12:51am - #13635 

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GT in 6 speed? is this for reals? shocked

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glitch Apr 29, 1:01am - #13636 
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Quote:
Originally posted by SHI_GTS:
you did say it has more power low end and mid range. The dyno doesnt show that to be true.
dood i test drove both and i definately felt more torque in the mid range in the GT. i trust what i feel not some random dynos which aren't even from the same shop i might add.

read this if you still don't believe me. it's an article from toysport, a company that tunes toyotas http://www.toysport.com/Technical%20Information/2ZZ-GE_tech_notes.htm

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glitch
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glitch Apr 29, 1:02am - #13637 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Street Prototype:
GT in 6 speed? is this for reals? shocked
yeah... i'm wondering if they use the same 6 speed tranny as the GTS's. if so i'd definately buy one for my GT !

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Street Prototype Apr 29, 1:16am - #13638 

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ill buy one as well but how about the ECU? confused

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RicePowered
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RicePowered Apr 29, 1:33am - #13639 
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GT is 6 speed shocked I'd do a tranny swap thumbsup
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glitch
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glitch Apr 29, 5:39am - #13640 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Street Prototype:
ill buy one as well but how about the ECU? confused
not sure... frown

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SHI_GTS
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SHI_GTS Apr 29, 3:59pm - #13641 
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by glitch:
dood i test drove both and i definately felt more torque in the mid range in the GT. i trust what i feel not some random dynos which aren't even from the same shop i might add.
QUOTE]

my bad glitch, i should have bought the gt for the 2 pounds of more torque at 4000 (NO). That site you sent me to doesnt show any proof of the gt having more torque????

Should be around the same give or take a few..

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glitch
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glitch Apr 29, 8:06pm - #13642 
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okay you win! jeezus cry

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celica01gt Apr 29, 8:46pm - #13643 
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wow 6 speed gt!!! that's nuts... does it run like a gts then
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Steven Apr 29, 9:04pm - #13644 
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no it doesn't, it just has that 6th gear for fuel efficiency just like the GTS
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SHI_GTS Apr 30, 1:41am - #13645 
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6th gear is a waste guys...its OD.. but when you dont have things, you want them... I want 7th gear haha! glitch not trying to be a dick man... sorry... i just get frustrated when lil stuff pokes out. peace guys

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glitch Apr 30, 5:47am - #13646 
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lil stuff pokes out? wtf are you talking about now?

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Street Prototype Apr 30, 9:19am - #13647 

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lil stuff pokes out? wtf wtf wtf

[ 04-30-2003, 02:20 AM: Message edited by: Street Prototype ]

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SHI_GTS Apr 30, 5:35pm - #13648 
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lil stuff like glitch saying a gt has more torque than a gts. Same engine man...

and "wtf am i talking bout now" ... Glitch.. what do you even know about celicas? U have apc lights and a Hood? nice mods (NO)... I love how you said you test drove the gt and the gts and liked the gt's torque better. I told a lot of people about that at import night. good laugh.. Well im glad you got more torque on your gt.
shouldnt have said sorry to you on the last post, you wont let shit dro p i see.

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RicePowered
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RicePowered Apr 30, 5:52pm - #13649 
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lil stuff pokes out? wtf I'm sorry to hear that rofl

My opinion is that the GT and GTS are exactly the same until the GTS hits lift.

smile
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glitch
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glitch Apr 30, 6:02pm - #13650 
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Quote:
Originally posted by SHI_GTS:
lil stuff like glitch saying a gt has more torque than a gts. Same engine man...

and "wtf am i talking bout now" ... Glitch.. what do you even know about celicas? U have apc lights and a Hood? nice mods (NO)... I love how you said you test drove the gt and the gts and liked the gt's torque better. I told a lot of people about that at import night. good laugh.. Well im glad you got more torque on your gt.
shouldnt have said sorry to you on the last post, you wont let shit dro p i see.
yeah i did let it drop until you made another prick comment.

apparently u'r the one who doesn't know about celicas because the GT and the GTS don't have the same engine, wiseguy. rofl did you even read the link i sent you? and no, i don't have an aftermarket Hood, just APC lights because i don't waste my money on stupid mods like an S-AFC. how's that working out for you? i suggest you do some research before it's too late for you and you become a ricer. but maybe you already are confused

quit bragging about your bolt-ons and do some real work to your car.

[ 04-30-2003, 11:03 AM: Message edited by: glitch ]

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glitch Apr 30, 6:45pm - #13651 
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SHI_GTS Apr 30, 10:10pm - #13652 
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Quote:
Originally posted by RicePowered:
lil stuff pokes out? wtf I'm sorry to hear that rofl

My opinion is that the GT and GTS are exactly the same until the GTS hits lift.

smile
exactly...

we done argueing now?

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glitch Apr 30, 11:49pm - #13653 
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rolleyes

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FX-MAN
Member
FX-MAN May 1, 5:52am - #13654 
Member

Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 184
Vancouver, BC
same engine??? lol... VVT-i and VVTL-i are no where near the same engine apart from both being 4 bangers.. lol... and actually the GT does have more torque in the lower end.. there is a large difference between peak torque and torque at a specific RPM and we do have better torqe between 3500 and 4500rpm (like 2-5 more lb -ft than the GTS over the range:) ).. Which doesn't mean much, because our gearing is VERY different, the GT DOES feel better at 3500 rpm in 1st and 2nd gear because of the way the car is geared, anyone who has driven both cars will attest to this, the GTS however feels much better in 3-6 because of the gear ratios, and 6th gear is another gear in the manual not "overdrive" (which IS 6th gear in a GTS auto "overdrive" IS THE TOP GEAR OF AN AUTO). . The 6th gear allows the gear ratios of 3rd 4th and 5th to be narrower, that is the entire POINT of a 6 speed, better highway passing without losing your top speed. This is a silly argument anyway, the point is the GTS has a better engine stock... plain and simple, lift makes a HUGE differnce and you are in lift allot of the time when driving one.. they are not as good for forced induction because of the stock 11.1 compression, This is why supercharger and turbo kits are more expensive for the GTS. So the GT for less money total, can end up with more power 200hp at the wheels with a stage 1 turbo for only around $4000 installed. (which is the reason Glitch and I both went with the GT), Once these cars are turboed the gear ratios will be moot because we will have enough torque to power through our higher ratios in 3rd 4th and 5th, and we will dust a stock GTS any day of the week (pushing 50lb -ft more peak torque, and averaging 35lb -ft more at the wheels across the entire powerband).

[ 04-30-2003, 11:00 PM: Message edited by: FX-MAN ]

FX-MAN
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