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  Trial vs DC sports Header dyno shoot out results. (read this)
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Lucky_317
Mike

2000 Silver Celica GT-S 6spd
 Post # 1870260135 5 Years ago  

OK so now that my stupid car is running again I got to Dyno the DC Sports header.

stupid scanner is being retarded so heres the text version.

**NOTE: This is done on a MUSTANG DYNO not a dyno jet so ignore the numbers and look at the gains. (typical 6% loss due to the 2782lbs load the cars were put under.**

Stock ECU/I/E

170.8 whp @ 8000 rpms
119.1 wtq @ 7000 rpms

Stock ECU/I/E/DC Sports Header

170.5 whp @ 7750 rpms
121.4 wtq @ 7000 rpms

Result - DC made basically same hp only sooner and made 2.3 wtq more.

Now For the Trial Header vs DC Sports Header comparison

00silvergts6spd/ DC Sports

170.5 whp @ 7750 rpms
121.4 wtq @ 7000 rpms

N/A2zz/Trial Header

171.4 whp @ 8250 rpm
119.0 wtq @ 7000 rpm

**The first trial dyno was pretty bad so we used run # 2. DC only got 1 run so we didnt have much choices lol**

From 5300 rpms - 8000 rpms DC > Trial

at 6725 rpms DC > trial by about 15 hp and 15 tq

from 2000 - 5300 the graphs were identical. but trial stops going up and dc doesnt. then trial spikes a lil higher at the end of the run.


My conclusion TPR better get some good gains or we're screwed. Also FYI DC header did better with the power fc. not gonna talk about those numbers though cause we were tuning the trial but not the dc. (was not my tuning day) I just squeezed in 3 runs after we finished his car.
Joined: 6 Years ago · From: Fontana, CA

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Lucky_317
Mike

2000 Silver Celica GT-S 6spd
 Post # 1870260136 5 Years ago  

FYI 6% less then a dynojet = a 10HP difference.
Joined: 6 Years ago · From: Fontana, CA

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BaTMaN_4


2002 Black Celica GT
 Post # 1870260165 5 Years ago  

Interesting, so wats the point of getting headers?

This post has been edited by BaTMaN_4: 5 Years ago
Joined: 6 Years ago · From: McAllen, TX

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Lucky_317
Mike

2000 Silver Celica GT-S 6spd
 Post # 1870260183 5 Years ago  

right now? apparently nothing. unless you make it your only mod lol in which case you're lookin 10 hp over stock lol but who does that?

also dont worry cause this info has been forwarded to R&D people over at DC. Not that they will fix anything. but just wanna let you know that they will know the problem
Joined: 6 Years ago · From: Fontana, CA

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celicaTRDgts
john

02 white celica gt-s
 Post # 1870260186 5 Years ago  

sweet..thanks for the info..wontbe buying dc header then
Joined: 7 Years ago · From: arizona

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cycocelica
Jeff

2000 Black Celica GT
 Post # 1870260195 5 Years ago  

wow good info lucky
Joined: 7 Years ago · From: Washington

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Lucky_317
Mike

2000 Silver Celica GT-S 6spd
 Post # 1870260199 5 Years ago  

Unfortunately I was the last person on the planet to get the DC header thanx to DC's lack of follow through. So, I couldn't post these dynos until now.


so far TPR is about the last hope now. if they cant make better power we're screwed
Joined: 6 Years ago · From: Fontana, CA

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My Sixth Gear
Bryan

2003 Spectra Blue Mica Celica
 Post # 1870260202 5 Years ago  

go TPR get something going
Joined: 7 Years ago · From: Chicago, Illinois

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cycocelica
Jeff

2000 Black Celica GT
 Post # 1870260214 5 Years ago  

yeah TPR(blue and easyc) please make a great header!


one that will fit the GT and GT-S
Joined: 7 Years ago · From: Washington

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celicajonz
Raphael

 Post # 1870260713 5 Years ago  

.......header header header header......tpr(gt-s>03-04)
Joined: 6 Years ago · From: *562* , CA

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ragingpaseo


2003 blue celica
 Post # 1870260726 5 Years ago  

good info dude!!!
anybody have any numbers on hotshot...
Joined: 6 Years ago · From: towson, md

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Lucky_317
Mike

2000 Silver Celica GT-S 6spd
 Post # 1870260901 5 Years ago  

doesnt hotshot only do GT's?? so you can rest assured I'll never have that info
Joined: 6 Years ago · From: Fontana, CA

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ct


 Post # 1870260912 5 Years ago  

mike...those results are hurtin'...can you scan them up so we can see the power curves?
Joined: 7 Years ago · From: woodland hills, california

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Virgilson
Virgil

2000 Carbon Blue Celica GT
 Post # 1870260913 5 Years ago  

Quote:
Originally posted by Lucky_317:
doesnt hotshot only do GT's?? so you can rest assured I'll never have that info


i think they do
Joined: 7 Years ago · From: (909) Pomona, Southern CA

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Easy_C
Chris

2000 Spectra BLUE BABY! Celica GT-S
 Post # 1870261063 5 Years ago  


Joined: 7 Years ago · From: Mass
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Lucky_317
Mike

2000 Silver Celica GT-S 6spd
 Post # 1870261234 5 Years ago  

^^ hey bro, sorry I missed ya when you came down. I think it was your fault my car died since I was planning on drivin all the way out there lol
Joined: 6 Years ago · From: Fontana, CA

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Blue_Jaggon
Mark

2000 Spectra Blue Mica Celica GT-S
 Post # 1870261351 5 Years ago  

so dc gains 10hp w/ out mods but with mods it has no gains? and same for trial???
Joined: 7 Years ago · From: West Haven,CT / Springfield,MA

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EuRoBoYGT
Kevin

2000 carbon blue celica gt
 Post # 1870261368 5 Years ago  

so DC is better than Trial
Joined: 7 Years ago · From: El Paso TX

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Tru_gts


2002 Black Celica GT-S
 Post # 1870261656 5 Years ago  


Joined: 6 Years ago · From: Frisco
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My Sixth Gear
Bryan

2003 Spectra Blue Mica Celica
 Post # 1870261783 5 Years ago  

they both stink with those numbers
Joined: 7 Years ago · From: Chicago, Illinois

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Speed4TheNeed
Caleb

2000 Carbon Blue Celica GT-S 6-spd
 Post # 1870261970 5 Years ago  

valuable info, mike..thanks for doing the runs

kinda sucks to look at the #'s though...you would think exhaust & intake would slightly improve the header numbers by removing bottlenecks but according to these runs that isn't the case at all. that's kind of curious..i'll definately have to see how tpr does...hopefully that's better but if companies like trial and dc motorsports can't do it, i'd still be skeptical about another company topping them. i guess i/e people will have to start experimenting with custom headers.

oh, and i actually like the mustang dyno better..i like load bearing settings but that could just be me.
Joined: 7 Years ago · From: New Orleans, LA

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Blue_Bomber
Chris

2000 Spectra Blue Mica Celica GT-S 6-speed
 Post # 1870261976 5 Years ago  

Quote:
Originally posted by Speed4TheNeed:
i'll definately have to see how tpr does...hopefully that's better but if companies like trial and dc motorsports can't do it, i'd still be skeptical about another company topping them.

The difference with the TPR header is that it's a TRUE 4-2-1 design. It's nothing like stock, Trial, DC, or TRD. It will look very similar to this:



That's a Toda header for the RSX-S.

This post has been edited by Blue_Bomber: 5 Years ago
Joined: 6 Years ago · From: Freehold, NJ

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Speed4TheNeed
Caleb

2000 Carbon Blue Celica GT-S 6-spd
 Post # 1870261981 5 Years ago  

^^ thanks for the headsup. i'll definately be checking the dyno #'s on this...and i'd also love to see how it does with intake/exhaust since the above #'s seem to show virtually no gain and slightly more torque.

will your 4-2-1 design really be that different in length though? also, if i remember right, dc motorsports initial header designs were to be 4-2-1 but the wound up going 4-1 instead (like trial and trd)...i don't know for a fact but i would assume they changed to this because the gains were better.

a lot remains to be seen though, and i'm hoping trp pulls though with a header that does well with intake/exhaust...because i really don't know anyone who runs around with just a header. virtually every case i've seen with a car using a header also had at least an intake and exhaust. (obviously this has to do with installation ease & cost..but the point remains)
Joined: 7 Years ago · From: New Orleans, LA

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Blue_Bomber
Chris

2000 Spectra Blue Mica Celica GT-S 6-speed
 Post # 1870261999 5 Years ago  

Quote:
Originally posted by Speed4TheNeed:
will your 4-2-1 design really be that different in length though? also, if i remember right, dc motorsports initial header designs were to be 4-2-1 but the wound up going 4-1 instead (like trial and trd)...i don't know for a fact but i would assume they changed to this because the gains were better.

Yes, it should be about that long, maybe a few inches shorter, maybe a few inches longer (not sure how long the final collector will be, or how long the Toda header is). TRD/Trial/DC made their headers like OEM most likely for sales and CARB approval. It's much easier and cheaper to just install a replacement header, and it cuts down on design research, since all those companies really did was use larger piping and smoother bends while sticking to the same design as stock (TRD even used a stock header flange). It also keeps owners from having to modify their midpipe (and altering the stock cat [CARB part of the equation]), which would attract more customers than a header that needed custom work. TPR has taken it a step further by offering a midpipe, including a CARB approved replacement cat and high flow resonator, that fits their header to solve the problem. This does not make the midpipe CARB certified, but it is legal to replace your cat with it after a certain amount of miles or years, depending on your state.

BTW, the stock header is actually a kind of 4-2-1 design (called a theta pipe), but instead of using individual pipes for the secondaries, they just put a divider plate down the middle of the collector and down a bit of the midpipe to simulate a true 4-2-1 design. Toyota claims it was to get the cat to heat up faster on cold startup, but I've been told by a header designer that that's BS, and it was just done to reduce production costs (which is totally believable).
Joined: 6 Years ago · From: Freehold, NJ

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Speed4TheNeed
Caleb

2000 Carbon Blue Celica GT-S 6-spd
 Post # 1870262071 5 Years ago  

good points.

i live in louisiana and needless to say we don't have CARB and emissions tests are practically NEVER enforced. (cops and brake tag stations usually only enforce exhaust decibel levels). i'd like to see a header that uses a midpipe without the cat and see what type of gains that would give.
Joined: 7 Years ago · From: New Orleans, LA

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Tru_gts


2002 Black Celica GT-S
 Post # 1870262586 5 Years ago  

Is the TRP header going to be a bolt on?
Joined: 6 Years ago · From: Frisco

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Blue_Bomber
Chris

2000 Spectra Blue Mica Celica GT-S 6-speed
 Post # 1870262599 5 Years ago  

Quote:
Originally posted by Tru_gts:
Is the TRP header going to be a bolt on?
Pretty much. If you use the TPR midpipe (sold with the TPR header), it's completely bolt on. If you choose to use your stock midpipe, you'll need a muffler shop to shorten it a bit to fit with the header, and add a different flange to connect to the header.
Joined: 6 Years ago · From: Freehold, NJ

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ikin


2000 silver Celica GT
 Post # 1870262638 5 Years ago  

if i buy the headers and the midpipe with the cat will i pass the sniffer, i live in cali by the way. i can pass visual, the most important to me is the sniffer, thanks and keep up the good work
Joined: 6 Years ago · From: california

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Blue_Bomber
Chris

2000 Spectra Blue Mica Celica GT-S 6-speed
 Post # 1870262660 5 Years ago  

Yeah, there's a very good chance it will. The cat is OBDII compliant and CARB approved as an OEM replacement, which means it's fully compatible with all emissions equipment, and should perform just as well as the OEM cat.
Joined: 6 Years ago · From: Freehold, NJ

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ragingpaseo


2003 blue celica
 Post # 1870265030 5 Years ago  

hey bomber, is this going to stainless or coated???
Joined: 6 Years ago · From: towson, md

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